Europe --- In or Out

[zerosum 234]

[ewerk 30266]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

If Labour were playing by the same rulebook as the Tories, they'd force a vote of no confidence and simply remove Boris, install JC, and request the extension that way. I do firmly believe they can now do this. But they won't.

They would do this in a heartbeat if they could. Corbyn doesn't have the support to be PM. It has to be someone outside of the Labour leadership.

[Rayvin 5183]

That picture is going to haunt him forever

 

I just read that the guy claimed £6.7m to refurbish his home while voting through the bedroom tax. Words can't describe how morally bankrupt he is.

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

They would do this in a heartbeat if they could. Corbyn doesn't have the support to be PM. It has to be someone outside of the Labour leadership.

 

Surely this must be focusing minds though. I mean even Ken Clarke came out and said he would back Corbyn. The LDs would have to, SNP surely would.. And the Tory rebels... admittedly that's a stretch but Boris has at least just made it easier.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

the rainbow coaltion will be great if it stops no-deal brexit and forces the tories out, but the SNP will demand concessions, in the form of indy ref 2, and corbyn will likely oblige, which means the break up of the UK. 

and who the fuck could blame them? i don't want to be governed from westminster either right now and i live in london

[Rayvin 5183]

2 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

the rainbow coaltion will be great if it stops no-deal brexit and forces the tories out, but the SNP will demand concessions, in the form of indy ref 2, and corbyn will likely oblige, which means the break up of the UK. 

and who the fuck could blame them? i don't want to be governed from westminster either right now and i live in london

 

The SNP may well demand that, but imagine if Corbyn says no. What are they going to do then, enable Boris out of spite? Not sure Scotland will appreciate that.

[ewerk 30266]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Surely this must be focusing minds though. I mean even Ken Clarke came out and said he would back Corbyn. The LDs would have to, SNP surely would.. And the Tory rebels... admittedly that's a stretch but Boris has at least just made it easier.

Whoever it is is never going to get to implement any of their agenda so why make it even more difficult by trying to persuade people to choose Corbyn? Many of the Tory rebels still want to stand as Conservatives again so they aren’t going to want to completely fuck that up by putting Corbyn in No.10.

I’d suggest Clarke but he isn’t a fan of a second referendum. Give it to someone non-threatening like Lucas.

[Rayvin 5183]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Whoever it is is never going to get to implement any of their agenda so why make it even more difficult by trying to persuade people to choose Corbyn? Many of the Tory rebels still want to stand as Conservatives again so they aren’t going to want to completely fuck that up by putting Corbyn in No.10.

I’d suggest Clarke but he isn’t a fan of a second referendum. Give it to someone non-threatening like Lucas.

 

I mean, I agree with you. I don't give a flying fuck who they install - could even be Cameron himself for all I care, if he ever felt like getting back on the right side of this - but this is the only way of categorically ruling out No Deal, and it frustrates me that party politics is preventing it from happening.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

[wykikitoon 19893]

The BBC were saying he's trying to listen to the speaker.  There wasn't a speaker was there?

[ewerk 30266]

MPs do sometimes put their head against the benches to hear the speakers but it's generally when parliament is rowdy and it's difficult to hear the person speaking. The chamber wasn't even a quarter full at the time.

[wykikitoon 19893]

 

Not bad from a former Tory MP.  Wise words?

[Rayvin 5183]

"A special meeting of the Parliamentary Labour Party has just broken up, the near-unanimous view of the room was that Corbyn should hold off on a snap election until after November 1. Corbyn may disagree. But in the words of one figure: "They (MPs) are the ones who have the vote."

 

^If they do this, Johnson is in trouble.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

agreed. johnson's honeymoon period will be officially over by then, if it isn't already, and he will be see as a failure when he fails to secure a deal by Oct 31st. 

the pollls are still a concern though

[Rayvin 5183]

The polls are indeed a concern, but maybe Labour's frustrating position on Brexit might in the end help us out here. The Lib Dems and Labour are more or less neck in neck, which means that for a majority government they'd need to go into coalition. That might encourage enough moderates to think that Labour will be sufficiently neutered by their presence, that voting away from Tory (and obviously for LDs) is acceptable.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

i've been as critical of corbyn as anyone, but you have to admire the party unity from labour in the past 24 hours. boris is getting pwned

Edited September 4, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[Rayvin 5183]

Indeed, I've also got to admit that Corbyn has stepped up strong on this. Labour look almost credible as opposition. Partially that's because Boris is woeful, but partially it's because they're finally taking a stand on the bloody issue.

[Gemmill 44397]

Starting to sound like delaying the election til after Johnson has been forced to request an extension is an actual goer. At the 11th hour, Labour has got its shit together. 

[Gemmill 44397]

Sturgeon making a rare mistake in pushing for a mid October election. Unless that's just optics - assume they alone can't get the tories over the line for a two thirds majority,so she might just be giving it the big one. 

[Gemmill 44397]

Javid is such a little fucking chopper. 

[Gemmill 44397]

33 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Starting to sound like delaying the election til after Johnson has been forced to request an extension is an actual goer. At the 11th hour, Labour has got its shit together. 

 

Ugh spoke too soon. Spokesman says they'll give Johnson what he wants. They are fucking ridiculous. This is a no brainer. 

[Rayvin 5183]

Not sure Labour are changing their tune, the familiar mixed messages are coming out now. I fear we're not out of the woods yet, Team Corbyn still seem to want that GE.

[Gemmill 44397]

They can have it. They just need to wait ffs. Force him to request the extension and then go to the polls. Why can they come so close to playing a blinder and blow the most important part. 

 

If Johnson wins a majority before the end of Oct, no deal is back on the table. 

[Rayvin 5183]

I'm not sure they'll necessarily get their way though. Team Corbyn, assuming it covers the front bench, isn't enough to get a two thirds majority. PLP could dig their heels in.

 

Also, I found all of this very encouraging:

 

Voters regard Johnson’s suspension of parliament as undemocratic by an overwhelming 46% to 32%, while the prime minister’s decision to throw 21 of his MPs – including two former chancellors of the exchequer and the grandson of Sir Winston Churchill – out of his party is also viewed as undemocratic by 45% to 32%.

Barely a fifth (22%) of voters think people voted in 2016 to leave with no deal, reinforcing claims by Johnson’s opponents that he has no mandate to impose this on the British people now. But only 21% think a general election is the right way to settle Brexit. Instead, a majority - 53% excluding don’t knows – say they support a new public vote.

Johnson has defended his hardline stance by claiming he’s seeking to negotiate a new deal but fewer voters (39%) think he’s serious about this than think he’s not serious (42%).

[ewerk 30266]

19 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 PLP could dig their heels in.

 

They've already told him not to go for it. It would be monumentally stupid to go for a GE now when the party is so split over the very notion of one.