Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5183]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

Yup, another weapons grade cunt. The point is this is happening everywhere and Brexit could be just the start of it here  

 

I think our issue was inflated by austerity. I don't think we are as "on the brink" as it may seem. However, as I have been saying ad nauseum, the left has to reach out to the white working classes with non-divisive, non identity based policy and narratives. It really is the only way back from here.

 

The UK isn't as bad as Brazil or even the US.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I think our issue was inflated by austerity. I don't think we are as "on the brink" as it may seem. However, as I have been saying ad nauseum, the left has to reach out to the white working classes with non-divisive, non identity based policy and narratives. It really is the only way back from here.

 

The UK isn't as bad as Brazil or even the US.

The white working class voters who feel betrayed by the establishment over Brexit are exactly the ones who worry me 

[Alex 34846]

Good to see Phil hasn’t grown any brain cells in his absence 

[Alex 34846]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I mean yeah, Ashley is the one constant in our lives.

 

Would I prefer Revoke Brexit or No Ashley NUFC... tough one tbh.

You might as well have the former as the latter would still see us win fuck all 

[Rayvin 5183]

12 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

The white working class voters who feel betrayed by the establishment over Brexit are exactly the ones who worry me 

 

Me too. But when you try to talk about the issues that they're upset about and could be brought round on, the SJWs decide you're a Nazi. The culture war is writ large over all of this and we really need to put it back in its box.

 

We need to compromise with the anti globalists and stop seeing them as racists, but as people who want to preserve their way of life. Even if we disagree with certain aspects, we need to engage.

 

Having said this, it was still the middle class, right wing Midlands Tory voters who made up the a good amount of the vote. And they are racists.

[Rayvin 5183]

9 minutes ago, Alex said:

You might as well have the former as the latter would still see us win fuck all 

 

I know man, I would take revoking Brexit without any hesitation in reality. People's very lives seem to depend on it after all.

[PaddockLad 17079]

Wonder how the UDA drag act/Enniskillen flat  Earthers are feeling tonight?

 

 

[ewerk 30266]

7 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

Wonder how the UDA drag act/Enniskillen flat  Earthers are feeling tonight?

 

 

Like they've just killed the goose who laid the golden egg, I'd imagine.

[ewerk 30266]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Well thats nonsense.  All he has to do is pass a bill that says "Notwithstanding the Fixed-term Parliaments Act, we will have a general election on 14 October.", which would only require a majority. link

 

 

That requires primary legislation that requires the majority of the House. But more importantly it would be subject to a variety of back bench amendments that the government would find entirely unpalatable.

I'm not sure you've thought this one through.

[Dr Gloom 21813]

Well that’s nonsense 

[ewerk 30266]

?

[wykikitoon 19892]

Young Rees Mong wannabe in the office mouthing off that BJ name will go down as one of the finest PM's in recent history.

[ewerk 30266]

32 minutes ago, ewerk said:

That requires primary legislation that requires the majority of the House. But more importantly it would be subject to a variety of back bench amendments that the government would find entirely unpalatable.

I'm not sure you've thought this one through.

 

[Dr Gloom 21813]

26 minutes ago, ewerk said:

?

Sorry, I was just impersonating Phil

[Dr Gloom 21813]

8 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

Young Rees Mong wannabe in the office mouthing off that BJ name will go down as one of the finest PM's in recent history.

He’ll go down in history so he got it half right 

[ewerk 30266]

Ah right, I didn't quite get that as you only made one incorrect point in a three word post, he'd have had at least six.

Must try harder.

[ewerk 30266]

Anyway, if Labour takes the bait then it all comes down to a GE. If Johnson wins with a majority then he can simply repeal today's instruction to request an extension as no extension will be granted before the next EuCo meeting on 17th October.

[wykikitoon 19892]

What happens if Corbyn doesnt take the bait? 

[ewerk 30266]

Then we continue with a minority government and at the next EuCo meeting on 17th October he's forced to ask EU leaders for an extension.

A slightly more sensible solution would be to force Johnson to request an emergency EU summit to get the extension before going to the polls but I'm not sure how feasible that is.

[PaddockLad 17079]

8 minutes ago, wykikitoon said:

What happens if Corbyn doesnt take the bait? 

 

Todays bill will go through so he'll have to go to Brussels and ask for and extension to the leaving date. Not quite sure what am extension will produce or acheive to be honest but there you go...

[ewerk 30266]

24 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

Todays bill will go through so he'll have to go to Brussels and ask for and extension to the leaving date. Not quite sure what am extension will produce or acheive to be honest but there you go...

Well it stops us leaving without a deal for now. Johnson can suspend Parliament from Monday right up until 14th October. Given the next EuCo meeting is on 17th October his plan was to shut down parliament to take us out on no deal.

With breathing space until 31st January we have time for a GE and hopefully with a change of government we can actually sort out this shit show.

Edited September 4, 2019 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5183]

I don't see the logic in Labour agreeing to this GE even with the bill passed. They should force Johnson to go for an extension  wait until after the date and then carry out the GE once he has been humiliated. Is the thinking that it'll be too easy for Johnson to say they humiliated the country If that happens? I'm not sure I consider them favourites to win a GE...

 

The extension would give us time for a referendum though which has to be Labour's end game.

[ewerk 30266]

6 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I don't see the logic in Labour agreeing to this GE even with the bill passed. They should force Johnson to go for an extension  wait until after the date and then carry out the GE once he has been humiliated. Is the thinking that it'll be too easy for Johnson to say they humiliated the country If that happens? I'm not sure I consider them favourites to win a GE...

 

The extension would give us time for a referendum though which has to be Labour's end game.

I agree, especially with parliament not sitting much anyway between now and 31st October. However, I don't think Corbyn wants to be seen to be avoiding an election. Plus I'm not sure 31st October gives us enough time for another referendum, particularly with the Christmas holidays.

Edited September 4, 2019 by ewerk

[ewerk 30266]

 

 

[Rayvin 5183]

36 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I agree, especially with parliament not sitting much anyway between now and 31st October. However, I don't think Corbyn wants to be seen to be avoiding an election. Plus I'm not sure 31st October gives us enough time for another referendum, particularly with the Christmas holidays.

 

True. I suppose if Labour gets a GE win it can go to the EU and request an extension long enough to hold one.

 

It just seems like Labour are still playing by the rules and the Brexiteers aren't. This amendment, fun as it is, does nothing to protect us from No Deal if we have this GE. All it does is stop Johnson trying to cheat and force us out. If Labour were playing by the same rulebook as the Tories, they'd force a vote of no confidence and simply remove Boris, install JC, and request the extension that way. I do firmly believe they can now do this. But they won't.

Edited September 4, 2019 by Rayvin