Europe --- In or Out

[Meenzer 15405]

The turd that lad curled out at the Stadium of Light was firmer and more visible than Corbyn will ever be.

[Gemmill 44389]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I assumed she already was. She’s certainly terrible enough to be in there.

He reckons she is viewed as a future leader and has the potential to have as big an impact as AOC in America.

[ewerk 30266]

Guess who he's sharing a stage with tonight.  

[Rayvin 5176]

Corbyn? I dunno, who?

[ewerk 30266]

One Laura Pidcock MP.

[Rayvin 5176]

I don't know anything about her beyond what I've just read in Owen Jones' article. What is actually wrong with her?

 

Incidentally, I take Owen's begrudging support for Remain as a good sign. He appears to be closely tied to the party to the point where I would suggest he's more mouthpiece than journalist.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Rayvin

[NJS 4371]

He's very pro-remain - he just thinks like me that another ref isn't the easy panacea others do. 

[ewerk 30266]

Literally no one sees it as an 'easy panacea'.

[Gemmill 44389]

14 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I don't know anything about her beyond what I've just read in Owen Jones' article. What is actually wrong with her?

 

Incidentally, I take Owen's begrudging support for Remain as a good sign. He appears to be closely tied to the party to the point where I would suggest he's more mouthpiece than journalist.

 

Every time I've heard her speak, she appears to be thick as mince. 

[Rayvin 5176]

5 minutes ago, NJS said:

He's very pro-remain - he just thinks like me that another ref isn't the easy panacea others do. 

 

Labour's pummeling at the European elections was obvious and inevitable, and he published an article calling out "Ultra Remainers" as betraying the project and enboldening the far right. He's another one of these people who seems to consistently believe that Leave voters are a bigger proportion of the Labour voting base than Remain voters. They're not. They never were. If that means there is now a disconnect between the people Labour thinks it speaks for, and those who vote for it, then that's just how it is. But Labour hasn't betrayed those people - those people have betrayed themselves.

[NJS 4371]

I don't think anyone's said leave voters are a bigger part but they are a part - as I said yesterday addressing the whys and wherefores of that is as important as the Brexit debate. 

[ewerk 30266]

Yeah and it's also going to take many years to address. The actual act of leaving the EU is the more pressing problem.

[NJS 4371]

Just now, ewerk said:

Yeah and it's also going to take many years to address. The actual act of leaving the EU is the more pressing problem.

Very fair point. 

[Rayvin 5176]

Just now, NJS said:

I don't think anyone's said leave voters are a bigger part but they are a part - as I said yesterday addressing the whys and wherefores of that is as important as the Brexit debate. 

 

Why can't we address those and stay in the EU?

 

The narrative journey really isn't that difficult:

 

"You voted Leave for a variety of reasons, largely coming from a decade of austerity and national mismanagement by the Tories. We understand that you feel that you have not been listened to or represented within politics. To that end, while Labour campaigned for remaining in the EU, we also sought to understand the reasons behind why many of you would choose to leave. Following the vote, we committed to work with the government where possible to ensure that Brexit could be carried out in a way that honoured the vote but did not harm the lives and interests of British people.

 

Unfortunately, the Tory government attempted to force the country into an extreme and damaging Brexit arrangement, which would have negatively impacted upon people's jobs and families. The government has regrettably left us no choice but to call for a second vote, as we do not trust the competence or the stability of the Tory party to oversee and decide upon something of the utmost national importance. It is now clear that they are seeking only to preserve themselves politically. As such, the people must once again decide on what they wish to pursue, and Labour will firmly back the outcome, whatever it may be."

 

Would take him about 1 minute to say.

[NJS 4371]

Thats very good and covers the basics - need to address fom and the take back control etc bollocks as well though. 

[Rayvin 5176]

2 minutes ago, NJS said:

Thats very good and covers the basics - need to address fom and the take back control etc bollocks as well though. 

 

I figure they would address those things in the campaign leading up to the vote. This would just be for justifying the actual referendum.

 

But either way, if i can come up with that in 5 mins, Labour high command should be able to put something solid together.

[Rayvin 5176]

Tbf I guess i answered a slightly different question to the one you posed initially. Yes, they do need to tackle the actual issues at the same time. In fact I think that would create a much more compelling vision for remain anyway.

[ewerk 30266]

20 minutes ago, NJS said:

Thats very good and covers the basics - need to address fom and the take back control etc bollocks as well though. 

When you say 'address' do you mean to reform or to argue in favour of?

[ewerk 30266]

 

[NJS 4371]

42 minutes ago, ewerk said:

When you say 'address' do you mean to reform or to argue in favour of?

I meant the perception that fom is a bad thing and has adverse effects - of course it can do but generally it's a plus. I also think education on how the EU works and yes, suggesting change should be a part of it. 

[ewerk 30266]

I think that a large part of the problem is that we elect our MEPs every five years and after that the only thing we hear about the EU is the odd 'crazy law'. I think we should legislate that the major broadcasters devote at least five minutes a week of their news programming to what is happening in Brussels. It's part of the reason that people feel such a disconnect with Europe.

[Renton 21301]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I think that a large part of the problem is that we elect our MEPs every five years and after that the only thing we hear about the EU is the odd 'crazy law'. I think we should legislate that the major broadcasters devote at least five minutes a week of their news programming to what is happening in Brussels. It's part of the reason that people feel such a disconnect with Europe.

 

I'd use bendy bananas as a case study. Not even an EU law (it's WTO) but actually makes perfect sense. Bent bananas bruise and go rotten under transportation, which is wasteful. Better to use them in local markets. Of course the originator of most the lies is no other than Boris De Pfefel Johnson. 

 

I see Corbyn is once again prevaricating and refusing a referendum with Remain on it. Seriously, fuck him. Once you have voted once against your party, it is much easier a second time. I can't vote Labour in any election with him as leader. 

[Gemmill 44389]

Corbyn talking shite about a referendum again today, the useless dickhead. Now that May is fucking off, and given the shite coming from all of the Tory leadership hopefuls, he should be taking a firm position now. Another open goal missed by the prick. 

[PaddockLad 17079]

21 hours ago, Gemmill said:

I love Steve Van Zandt (Springsteen's guitarist and star of the Sopranos) on Twitter. Constantly going wild about what a fuckup Brexit is. He's fucking class. 

 

 

 

Fuckin love that cunt

 

 

Responsible for one of the great lost 80s tracks

 

 

[Rayvin 5176]

 

Spot on as usual.