Dr Gloom 22526 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 47 minutes ago, Gemmill said: So Vince Cable is advocating a three option referendum. Even the clowns that want a referendum are fucking it up. i'd rather a fudged deal than that. i don't trust the morons in this country not to vote no deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Wouldn't it just split the leave vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22526 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Wouldn't it just split the leave vote? imagine the campaign before any confirmatory referendum man. it'll be leave means leave galore. i wouldn't trust the country not to fall for it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Just now, Dr Gloom said: imagine the campaign before any confirmatory referendum man. it'll be leave means leave galore. i wouldn't trust the country not to fall for it again At least it's a clear mandate if it does. I mean it would be unarguable from our point of view. Part of what is so frustrating about this chaos is that there is no mandate for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22526 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) it'll be economic suicide, but at least we'll all finally be able to agree it is the will of the people. Edited May 15, 2019 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: it'll be economic suicide, but at least we'll all finally be able to agree it is the will of the people. That actually is a silver lining to a degree. The people will have no one else to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22409 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 I've explained before how this could easily be tackled using an AV system. It would be very unlikely for no deal to win under that scenario because 90% of remainers would vote May deal as second choice over no deal. Btw, the NoT mayoral referendum is an example of what I'm talking about, it would be simpler still with 3 options. I think there is a strong logical case for not having no deal on the ballot though. First is, the EU may not grant an extension if this is an option. But more importantly, it breaks the GFA. Should the electorate be allowed to force the government to break an international agreement and possibly start another war, without the consent of the Irish themselves? I really don't see how anybody can say yes to this, other than the lunatic fringe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47086 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 Labour refusing to rule out abstaining when May brings her deal back. The Corbyn-May stitch-up is on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22526 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Renton said: I've explained before how this could easily be tackled using an AV system. It would be very unlikely for no deal to win under that scenario because 90% of remainers would vote May deal as second choice over no deal. Btw, the NoT mayoral referendum is an example of what I'm talking about, it would be simpler still with 3 options. I think there is a strong logical case for not having no deal on the ballot though. First is, the EU may not grant an extension if this is an option. But more importantly, it breaks the GFA. Should the electorate be allowed to force the government to break an international agreement and possibly start another war, without the consent of the Irish themselves? I really don't see how anybody can say yes to this, other than the lunatic fringe. All the British electorate would really be doing is confirming that they prefer the default position at the end of A50 to May’s deal or remain. Couldn’t that result pave the way towards a “managed” no deal? It’s better than falling off a cliff edge, I guess. There would still probably be many more years of political impasse while they try to resolve the NI border question and everything else. It’s all advisory anyway. If we can’t make it work let’s just call the whole thing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22409 Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said: All the British electorate would really be doing is confirming that they prefer the default position at the end of A50 to May’s deal or remain. Couldn’t that result pave the way towards a “managed” no deal? It’s better than falling off a cliff edge, I guess. There would still probably be many more years of political impasse while they try to resolve the NI border question and everything else. It’s all advisory anyway. If we can’t make it work let’s just call the whole thing off. The EU will give us what they need, not what we want. It'll be completely asymmetric and we will have No leverage whatsoever. And we will ultimately have to agree with all the conditions set in the WA if we ever want a deal. The idea that we can negotiate a better deal after we crash out is laughable. Edited May 15, 2019 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 It would be interesting to see just what sort of a lead Labour would have if they went hard remain. Surely they’d be streets ahead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22409 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Compare and contrast with the pathetic Change UK logo or whatever they are called today. Looks like an Android menu button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47086 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 The polls are clear – Labour’s Brexit tactics are failing spectacularly https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/16/labour-brexit-remain-voters-european-elections?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard Corbyn fucking it up like it's his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11703 Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Could May get her deal through by simply adding a confirmatory referendum to the bill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22409 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 38 minutes ago, ewerk said: Could May get her deal through by simply adding a confirmatory referendum to the bill? Not without destroying her party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 That looks inevitable anyway. Marr did a good job this morning of illustrating just how split/duplicitous Labour is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22409 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, ewerk said: That looks inevitable anyway. Marr did a good job this morning of illustrating just how split/duplicitous Labour is. He's upped his game against everyone tbf. Edited May 19, 2019 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 47086 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Not a huge surprise but this is the right play for North East Remain voters apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Lib Dem it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Pity you don’t have a friend though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 Bribe a tramp with some spice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31592 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 Quite clever from the Lib Dems. https://www.libdems.org.uk/corbyn-farage-quiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5572 Posted May 20, 2019 Share Posted May 20, 2019 14 hours ago, ewerk said: Pity you don’t have a friend though. I have managed to win 4 friends, and 6 family members over to the Lib Dem cause Anything to shut me up, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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