Europe --- In or Out

[Alex 35079]

Reminds me of the time Shearergol reckoned his Auntie ( I think) had a 2 star Michelin restaurant and it turned out it was a 2 star guest house 

[Renton 21620]

He also claimed to have fucked Sheridan Smith which I was somewhat dubious about. Baggio's claim to be black which he later forgot was something else mind. Sorry, digressing. 

[ewerk 30602]

Still, I’m sure you had a lovely weekend there.

[ewerk 30602]

I noticed that it was Rebecca Long Bailey doing the talking for Labour today. A 39 year old made shadow Business Secretary  with less than four year’s parliamentary experience, no outstanding career before that and a degree from Man fucking Met. 

That’s the sort of brain power we’re relying on to resolve the biggest political problem of our times.

[Renton 21620]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

I noticed that it was Rebecca Long Bailey doing the talking for Labour today. A 39 year old made shadow Business Secretary  with less than four year’s parliamentary experience, no outstanding career before that and a degree from Man fucking Met. 

That’s the sort of brain power we’re relying on to resolve the biggest political problem of our times.

 

She's thick as pigshit tbh. Probably why Corbyn likes her. She was blabbering on about how being in the CU will mean we will have frictionless trade yesterday. 

 

NO. IT. DOESN'T. 

 

Have a look at the border between the EU and Turkey ffs. How don't senior politicians not get this? Why are Labour pursuing a pointless arrangement? Does the civil service actually advise these fools or have they given up? 

[Rayvin 5220]

8 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

She's thick as pigshit tbh. Probably why Corbyn likes her. She was blabbering on about how being in the CU will mean we will have frictionless trade yesterday. 

 

NO. IT. DOESN'T. 

 

Have a look at the border between the EU and Turkey ffs. How don't senior politicians not get this? Why are Labour pursuing a pointless arrangement? Does the civil service actually advise these fools or have they given up? 

 

Honestly think most of these people are now just thinking about their political careers and the future of their parties. It's a politically viable option rather than a pragmatically viable one. Stupid though because I am personally absolutely prepared to sacrifice Labour to keep us in the EU. I doubt I'm alone.

[ewerk 30602]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Honestly Stupid though because I am personally absolutely prepared to sacrifice Labour to keep us in the EU. I doubt I'm alone.

https://www.theindependent.group/support

[Rayvin 5220]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

https://www.theindependent.group/support

 

I thought they were called Change whatever now..?

[ewerk 30602]

Perhaps after they’re approved as a political party. They’ll accept your donation no matter what you call them.

[Renton 21620]

Oh dear. This really is a national humiliation now. May is having to beg like a dog at crufts to get an extension. But if this is humiliating, just imagine what it will be like if we get no deal and are forced to grovel to the EU just to survive as a nation. 

 

Easiest deal ever. We hold all the cards. Prosecco and BMWs.......

 

[Rayvin 5220]

Euro Elections it is then. And really, at this point, not reason not to proceed with a referendum. Extension until March 2020 on the cards unless the UK can approve the WA in the meantime.

 

I don't think May is begging for any extension though, she's begging for the one that saves the Tory party. That's the one the EU will deny her. And honestly, I think that without the Cooper bill, it's possible she might have gone for no deal instead. It's a battle won for the Remainers.

[Rayvin 5220]

3 hours ago, ewerk said:

Perhaps after they’re approved as a political party. They’ll accept your donation no matter what you call them.

 

What do they have to do with my willingness to sacrifice Labour for remaining in the EU though? My point was that if Labour don't back PV2, I'll abandon them.

[RobinRobin 11263]

7 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Honestly think most of these people are now just thinking about their political careers and the future of their parties. It's a politically viable option rather than a pragmatically viable one. 

Isn't that what all politicians do?  They are all, without exception, looking after their own interests first, their party's second (and not even that with the ERG etc), and the Country and the electorate a very distant 99th  

[RobinRobin 11263]

3 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

What do they have to do with my willingness to sacrifice Labour for remaining in the EU though? My point was that if Labour don't back PV2, I'll abandon them.

I'm sorry, but I doubt they give a fuck

[PaddockLad 17255]

5 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Euro Elections it is then. And really, at this point, not reason not to proceed with a referendum. Extension until March 2020 on the cards unless the UK can approve the WA in the meantime.

 

I don't think May is begging for any extension though, she's begging for the one that saves the Tory party. That's the one the EU will deny her. And honestly, I think that without the Cooper bill, it's possible she might have gone for no deal instead. It's a battle won for the Remainers.

 

There’s going to be an almighty rift between the Tory vote & most of the parliamentary party. Good. What they tried to resolve may well utterly destroy them forever

 

 

Edited April 10, 2019 by PaddockLad

[Sonatine 11375]

 

[Rayvin 5220]

5 hours ago, RobinRobin said:

I'm sorry, but I doubt they give a fuck

 

About me personally? Indeed, they won't care. But I was pretty diehard in my support for Labour, and if i can get to this point then it's fair to say I won't be the only one.

[Rayvin 5220]

3 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

 

There’s going to be an almighty rift between the Tory vote & most of the parliamentary party. Good. What they tried to resolve may well utterly destroy them forever

 

 

 

I really hope this is true but they just never die, man. They are political cockroaches.

[Alex 35079]

11 hours ago, Renton said:

Oh dear. This really is a national humiliation now. May is having to beg like a dog at crufts to get an extension. But if this is humiliating, just imagine what it will be like if we get no deal and are forced to grovel to the EU just to survive as a nation. 

 

Easiest deal ever. We hold all the cards. Prosecco and BMWs.......

 

I struggle to get my head round how stupid some people are. Many seem to think no deal is the end of negotiations with the EU.  It’s just starting from scratch but from a position where we have significantly less leverage 

[Renton 21620]

6 minutes ago, Alex said:

I struggle to get my head round how stupid some people are. Many seem to think no deal is the end of negotiations with the EU.  It’s just starting from scratch but from a position where we have significantly less leverage 

 

Exactly. We never had any leverage and it was always obvious to anyone with a brain our bluff would be called. So we leave without a deal, then what? We will be forced, very quickly imo from a point of weakness, back into negotiations where the EU will be in a much stronger position to get what they want (which will certainly include all elements of the WA). This will be a national humiliation far in excess of Suez and there will be no way of hiding it. I think that's why May won't allow no deal on her watch, its her ultimate red line. Why she is now enduring this complete humiliation, which it is. 

 

What about the ERG though? Can they not see this coming? Are they too thick and caught up in beliefs of English exceptionalism? Or do they think we will be able to dump the EU completely and align ourselves with the geographically distant US, and survive the transition? Or, is it all about disaster capitalism and they really don't give a single shit about the country? 

[Alex 35079]

It’s the latter with some of the more intelligent ones I think. It’s well within the capabilities of the likes of Francois to think we’re riding off into the land of milk and honey

Edited April 10, 2019 by Alex

[Rayvin 5220]

I think one thing that has become very clear is that MPs are really not very intelligent people.

[ewerk 30602]

9 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 We will be forced, very quickly imo from a point of weakness, back into negotiations where the EU will be in a much stronger position to get what they want (which will certainly include all elements of the WA).

The EU have made it clear that even in the event of no deal that a resolution on Ireland, citizens’ rights and the divorce bill would be a prerequisite to any trade talks.

[ewerk 30602]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think one thing that has become very clear is that MPs are really not very intelligent people.

Ordinarily that lack of intelligence is well hidden but we are in a perfect storm with a government beholden to morons because of their lack of majority and forced to recruit intellectual vacuums into the cabinet in order to fill the quota of leavers while shadow cabinet positions are given out purely based on their loyalty to the leader.

[Renton 21620]

In particular, we lack leaders. May and Corbyn aren't leaders. 

 

You have people like Bridget, working class lass who made it to Oxford, who is clearly academically bright. But she goes straight into a safe seat in Sunderland with very little real life experience. I'm not sure that is a good background for leadership. It's a similar story for most MPs, including Corbyn and May. The MPs nowadays who I tend to have most time for are the ones from professions, particularly law. There's still no sign of a great leader though. 

 

Contrast this with the life experience of someone like Tusk or Merkel, who have come through true adversity and have first hand knowledge of the other side. They are much stronger leaders. Then of course we have the problem with FPtP.....