Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5223]

I'm starting to wonder if the reality is that Parliament does actually represent the country. Totally divided and unable to make peace on anything. It's hard to argue that this isn't exactly where we are as a country.

 

And it's as much because of the intransigence of the Remainers as it is of the Leavers.

 

What happens if we get a GE and it returns the same issue? It would have to be a people's vote then. What happens if it's another tight vote (say it went for Remain)? How do we reconcile?

 

I can't quite believe what the Tories have actually managed to do here, it's a fuck up of legendary proportions. Epoch defining.

[ewerk 30617]

All this bullshit about reconciliation, healing and bringing the country together. Cancel Brexit and the whole thing will have been forgotten about by most in a couple of years.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

There is a way out of this if the politicians stop acting like fucking children and compromise on at least one fucking thing so we can try to find a consensus. All this talk of acting in the national interest has been exposed for what it is - absolutely cynical uturns from JRM and bojo before MV 2.5, and a complete failure from Green/LibDem/TIG to back Norway plus. 

I'm starting to wonder if the country needs the punch in the face of a no deal Brexit to inspire a majority to try to recalibrate our relationship with Europe. Maybe the only way to wipe out enthusiasm for Brexit is to have no ideal and for it to be absolutely shit - several years of savage pain, rations, jobs losses etc. Maybe that's the only way to forge a new consensus that being in Europe is actually a good thing.

I don't buy ewerk's line that it'll all blow over in a couple of years if we try to pretend it never happened. We're stuck with this fucking nonsense for decades when we should really be focussing on the big issue of the day - impending climate disaster. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Dr Gloom

[NJS 4386]

I tend to agree Gloom but how long would the wake up call take? 

 

The Mogg cunt has already played the "it may take 50 years before I'm proven right" card so even 12 months of utter shit won't change his or his followers' minds. 

[Renton 21627]

11 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

There is a way out of this if the politicians stop acting like fucking children and compromise on at least one fucking thing so we can try to find a consensus. All this talk of acting in the national interest has been exposed for what it is - absolutely cynical uturns from JRM and bojo before MV 2.5, and a complete failure from Green/LibDem/TIG to back Norway plus. 

I'm starting to wonder if the country needs the punch in the face of a no deal Brexit to inspire a majority to try to recalibrate our relationship with Europe. Maybe the only way to wipe out enthusiasm for Brexit is to have no ideal and for it to be absolutely shit - several years of savage pain, rations, jobs losses etc. Maybe that's the only way to forge a new consensus that being in Europe is actually a good thing.

I don't buy ewerk's line that it'll all blow over in a couple of years if we try to pretend it never happened. We're stuck with this fucking nonsense for decades when we should really be focussing on the big issue of the day - impending climate disaster. 

 

I posted almost exactly the same last week. It's not like we have a choice now anyway, it's out of our hands. I reckon this board has consistently underestimated the chances of no deal. It is odds on now imo. The stuff the EU are saying now, it's not intended to scare, it's reality. 

[Renton 21627]

17 minutes ago, NJS said:

I tend to agree Gloom but how long would the wake up call take? 

 

The Mogg cunt has already played the "it may take 50 years before I'm proven right" card so even 12 months of utter shit won't change his or his followers' minds. 

 

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

You'd hope that once people are directly affected they will sharp change their minds. But there are ways the government can lessen the immediate impact, for instance by abolishing tariffs and regulatory checks. This will lead to a world of pain further down the line of course, but they will do everything possible to deflect, scapegoat, and obfuscate in order to break the connection in people's minds.

 

They'll also sack off May and have us suckling on Trump's tits asap, making it hard to go back to Europe. I predict in a few years Gemmill will be reminiscing about the good old days when we had Theresa May as PM. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Renton

[Dr Gloom 21924]

14 minutes ago, NJS said:

I tend to agree Gloom but how long would the wake up call take? 

 

The Mogg cunt has already played the "it may take 50 years before I'm proven right" card so even 12 months of utter shit won't change his or his followers' minds. 

fuck knows, maybe a decade or so of collapsed asset prices, unemployment and social unrest might be enough to turn the mood around. hopefully around he time my kids have grown up. 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

You'd hope that once people are directly affected they will sharp change their minds. But there are ways the government can lessen the immediate impact, for instance by abolishing tariffs and regulatory checks. This will lead to a world of pain further down the line of course, but they will do everything possible to deflect, scapegoat, and obfuscate in order to break the connection in people's minds.

 

They'll also sack off May and have us suckling on Trump's tits asap, making it hard to go back to Europe. I predict in a few years Gemmill will be reminiscing about the good old days when we had Theresa May as PM. 

 

a festival of chlorinated chicken and hormone-packed beef

[Dr Gloom 21924]

May will apparently tell cabinet that is it's a choice between revocation of A50 and no deal, she would opt for no deal 

[ewerk 30617]

46 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

I don't buy ewerk's line that it'll all blow over in a couple of years if we try to pretend it never happened. We're stuck with this fucking nonsense for decades when we should really be focussing on the big issue of the day - impending climate disaster. 

Look at the March to Leave, look at the numbers attending their rally last weekend, look at the chart posted earlier. The vast majority will soon forget about Brexit.

[Renton 21627]

9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

May will apparently tell cabinet that is it's a choice between revocation of A50 and no deal, she would opt for no deal 

So would most the cabinet. A50 revocation is a bigger existential threat to the tories than no deal. That's why we are getting no deal of Macron turns down the extension. 

[ewerk 30617]

10 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

May will apparently tell cabinet that is it's a choice between revocation of A50 and no deal, she would opt for no deal 

Backbenchers are reportedly attempting to legislate to prevent that from happening.

[Renton 21627]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Look at the March to Leave, look at the numbers attending their rally last weekend, look at the chart posted earlier. The vast majority will soon forget about Brexit.

 

The ring masters won't go away though. The press won't change. This isn't a problem that's ever going away. 

[Renton 21627]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Backbenchers are reportedly attempting to legislate to prevent that from happening.

 

How can they do this mechanistically? It can only be stopped by doing something positive, and what's that? May will never revoke and there isn't enough time to get rid of her. 

[ewerk 30617]

23 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

How can they do this mechanistically? It can only be stopped by doing something positive, and what's that? May will never revoke and there isn't enough time to get rid of her. 

They can compel her to revoke in the event of us crashing out.

[ewerk 30617]

25 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The ring masters won't go away though. The press won't change. This isn't a problem that's ever going away. 

The press will go back to the way they always were. What we won't see is mass civil unrest or a surge in extreme Brexiter parties in parliament.

[Renton 21627]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

They can compel her to revoke in the event of us crashing out.

Parliament can get a binding motion on this can they? I wasn't aware that was in their powers. I hope you're right, but in any case I can't see it being voted for. 

 

Cooper is trying to get a motion to extend. As usual, there is a complete parliamentary bubble oblivious that all the EU27 have to agree. Without a concrete plan they won't though. 

[Isegrim 9778]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

Parliament can get a binding motion on this can they? I wasn't aware that was in their powers. I hope you're right, but in any case I can't see it being voted for. 

 

Cooper is trying to get a motion to extend. As usual, there is a complete parliamentary bubble oblivious that all the EU27 have to agree. Without a concrete plan they won't though. 

I think the lack of perspective is probably the main problem on your side. Everything is primarily seen from the British viewing point and based on your own wishes but forgetting there is another party involved with its own people interests and legal boundaries.

There is no point in proposing options without checking if they are viable. This “planning”  stuff isn’t that difficult tbh...

[Renton 21627]

7 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

I think the lack of perspective is probably the main problem on your side. Everything is primarily seen from the British viewing point and based on your own wishes but forgetting there is another party involved with its own people interests and legal boundaries.

There is no point in proposing options without checking if they are viable. This “planning”  stuff isn’t that difficult tbh...

 

It's crazy, and of course emblematic of our entire nationalist agenda. If Macron says "non" next Wednesday I'll have to laugh but it won't be pretty over here. Expect a festival of sizzling gammon.

[Meenzer 15531]

 

The man is just unbelievably thick. Leading the world.  

[Gemmill 44896]

The idea that we should leave and a period of pain would sharpen the minds is nonsense. The people who would need to feel the pain for any change to be brought about wouldn't be the people feeling the pain. They'll continue to blame the EU for the shit deal they gave us, and they won't offer another referendum. 

[Rayvin 5223]

4 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

The idea that we should leave and a period of pain would sharpen the minds is nonsense. The people who would need to feel the pain for any change to be brought about wouldn't be the people feeling the pain. They'll continue to blame the EU for the shit deal they gave us, and they won't offer another referendum. 

 

This is true.

 

We need to compromise and then rejoin at a later date.

[ewerk 30617]

1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

 

This is true.

 

We need to compromise and then rejoin at a later date.

Who needs to compromise?

[Rayvin 5223]

2 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Who needs to compromise?

 

At this point, everyone. We need a soft Brexit.

 

I agree with you that we won't see widespread unrest even if we revoke, but the damage it will do will be significant nonetheless. People are already disillusioned as fuck.

[Renton 21627]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Who needs to compromise?

He meant apologise.