Rayvin 5186 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Yeah either resignation, forcing a GE and an extension of A50, which the EU will back, or a watered down version of her shit deal is passed. The second option means the EU budging so possibly less likely, though they've already hinted they would accept a softer exit with fewer red lines I don't think she has time to deliver the fewer red lines now though - I mean even if she did try, it's hard to imagine them being well thought through. I am staggered that anyone has ever considered the Tories to be competent at anything btw, just staggered. There needs to be some fucking honesty with the public: "This has been an unmitigated disaster, we were poorly prepared and carried everything out incorrectly. The risk now if we proceed is that there are real and serious consequences for the lives of all British people, job losses and shortages of vital products. The only responsible action for us to take here is to cancel Article 50, and then as a nation, come together and decide what it is we want to do. We agreed that Brexit needs to happen and we will honour that agreement, but the nature of the Brexit requires public input as well - we will table a referendum for soft brexit or May's deal. No deal will be taken off the table because it is too destructive. We are sorry that you have been misled about the feasibility of this endeavour in general, and ask that you accept an apology on behalf of all MPs for our failure in this regard." I think the majority of the public would get behind that, and I even ruled our Remain on the referendum ticket so that the Brexiters don't think they're being shafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Ultimately the tories know that no deal is marginally better for the party than A50 withdrawal which will definitely end it. That's what's worrying. I doubt they'll survive No Deal either tbh. If it's as bad as what we're all picturing there will be actual hell on. Incidentally, at that point we need to be consistent on a narrative - whatever you think about Corbyn's failure on this, the blame has to be fucking squarely aimed at the Tories. No negotiation on it, not 'well some of it was the EU, a lot of it was a lack of leadership from Corbyn' etc - while all true, it waters the point down. It has to be 'This is on the fucking Tories'. The left will, however, find a way to fail at controlling this narrative. Edited February 21, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21364 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I don't think she has time to deliver the fewer red lines now though - I mean even if she did try, it's hard to imagine them being well thought through. I am staggered that anyone has ever considered the Tories to be competent at anything btw, just staggered. There needs to be some fucking honesty with the public: "This has been an unmitigated disaster, we were poorly prepared and carried everything out incorrectly. The risk now if we proceed is that there are real and serious consequences for the lives of all British people, job losses and shortages of vital products. The only responsible action for us to take here is to cancel Article 50, and then as a nation, come together and decide what it is we want to do. We agreed that Brexit needs to happen and we will honour that agreement, but the nature of the Brexit requires public input as well - we will table a referendum for soft brexit or May's deal. No deal will be taken off the table because it is too destructive. We are sorry that you have been misled about the feasibility of this endeavour in general, and ask that you accept an apology on behalf of all MPs for our failure in this regard." I think the majority of the public would get behind that, and I even ruled our Remain on the referendum ticket so that the Brexiters don't think they're being shafted. That is the least likely scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21364 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I doubt they'll survive No Deal either tbh. If it's as bad as what we're all picturing there will be actual hell on. Incidentally, at that point we need to be consistent on a narrative - whatever you think about Corbyn's failure on this, the blame has to be fucking squarely aimed at the Tories. No negotiation on it, not 'well some of it was the EU, a lot of it was a lack of leadership from Corbyn' etc - while all true, it waters the point down. It has to be 'This is on the fucking Tories'. The left will, however, find a way to fail at controlling this narrative. The tories are masters at shifting blame. Read between the lines, hear the rhetoric. They are going to blame the EU first and remainers second. People will fall for it. There millions of @Christmas Tree 's out there. As long as they hold the party together, they will try and weather the storm. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Renton said: That is the least likely scenario. I'm aware, trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 Disaster Socialist Well there's plenty of disaster going about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34877 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 He’s a fucking disaster anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 11322 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4702 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Rayvin said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4702 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34877 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just as CT predicted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’ll wait to see whether he’s proposing that remain be on the ballot before I get too excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Agreed on that, although a move towards a Norway would still be acceptable IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 No it wouldn’t. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4702 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Brexits dead, lock the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Is that your way of saying that you were wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4373 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 31 minutes ago, ewerk said: I’ll wait to see whether he’s proposing that remain be on the ballot before I get too excited. Credible leave option plus remain according to advice to MPs from party. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5186 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 It's fucking annoying how long it's taken Corbyn to get here, but if it goes off successfuly he gets my membership back. This is the only issue I care about atm, and yes, I'm fickle af. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 And he’s had to be dragged kicking and screaming to this point. I don’t think it’s deserving of your vote of confidence in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4373 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 To be fair it is/was conference policy - it's just been his reluctance that's been the problem. Still needs tory MP votes though as I keep saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4720 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Thornberry saying the second vote would be Remain vs mays Deal and that labour would be backing Remain in that particular battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Well that makes sense. They’ll make a symbolic proposal for their own referendum deal first then say they’ve done all they can and go remain. I do wonder whether the splitters have forced Corbyn’s hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30296 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 33 minutes ago, NJS said: To be fair it is/was conference policy - it's just been his reluctance that's been the problem. Still needs tory MP votes though as I keep saying. Four defectors is all it would take I think? Edit: Actually given that there would be Labour rebels there would need to be more than four Tories. Edit 2: Might Theresa May actually back the second vote of some of her cabinet/back benchers threaten to rebel? Edited February 25, 2019 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4373 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 14 minutes ago, ewerk said: Four defectors is all it would take I think? I've read quite a few - maybe 30 - Labour MPs won't back it as well though - need to persuade them first I think then move on to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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