Europe --- In or Out

[Meenzer 15404]

May's deal means the managed decline of the UK, no deal means unmanaged decline. A reluctant vote for the former, obviously.

[Rayvin 5176]

9 minutes ago, zerosum said:

Back on topic.. question for all.

 

If, you could have a vote on no deal or Theresa’s “deal”.. where would your vote go?

 

Obviously I imagine you’d like another referendum.. but for the sake of the question.. 

 

No Deal.

 

It's the only thing that will mean those leading the charge for this will actually have to suffer the consequences.

[zerosum 234]

Interesting. I’m intrigued how people firmly in the remain camp would see that choice. I don’t know what I’d go for tbh. Even the notion of a 2nd referendum I’m 50/50 on these days. Half of me thinks why the fuck did we start all this crap, let the people decide again.. the other half thinks fucking get on with it and get out the other side. 

[ewerk 30266]

2 minutes ago, zerosum said:

Interesting. I’m intrigued how people firmly in the remain camp would see that choice. I don’t know what I’d go for tbh. Even the notion of a 2nd referendum I’m 50/50 on these days. Half of me thinks why the fuck did we start all this crap, let the people decide again.. the other half thinks fucking get on with it and get out the other side. 

What does the other side look like?

[zerosum 234]

what side would that be?

edit. I see now lol 

Edited January 8, 2019 by zerosum

[zerosum 234]

the other side - looks like chaos at first, but I’m sure it won’t be as bad as we are led to believe - in time.

[ewerk 30266]

Okay, based on what? What happens to make everything okay?

[zerosum 234]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Okay, based on what? What happens to make everything okay?

 ? err- we get our shit together and start making the best of things.. I’m sure in time we would be ok. I’d obviously prefer a good deal, but if we ended up with no deal.. I don’t think for one moment the world will end.

[ewerk 30266]

20 minutes ago, zerosum said:

 ? err- we get our shit together and start making the best of things.. I’m sure in time we would be ok. I’d obviously prefer a good deal, but if we ended up with no deal.. I don’t think for one moment the world will end.

So you've absolutely no specifics? Have you actually stopped for a second to think about the specifics?

We would not have a single trade deal in place with any country in the world. None. So when we go looking for trade deals how do you think that's going to go? Everyone in the world knows that we're desperate and will treat us as such. It would be an utter disaster.

[zerosum 234]

It would get tough, yeah certainly. But as much as you say everyone would see us as desperate, on the other side of that coin there are also many who would be desperate to get easier access to the UK, without all the EU barriers. Over time (and it wouldn't be short term), new business opportunities would build, but that is just imo maybe I am wrong 

[Rayvin 5176]

4 minutes ago, zerosum said:

It would get tough, yeah certainly. But as much as you say everyone would see us as desperate, on the other side of that coin there are also many who would be desperate to get easier access to the UK, without all the EU barriers. Over time (and it wouldn't be short term), new business opportunities would build, but that is just imo maybe I am wrong 

 

But why should we even risk that... why are we risking any of our country's future on the biggest 'maybe' of the modern era?

 

And look how badly we handled negotiating with the EU. Why would we be any better with anyone else?

[zerosum 234]

Just now, Rayvin said:

 

But why should we even risk that... why are we risking any of our country's future on the biggest 'maybe' of the modern era?

 

And look how badly we handled negotiating with the EU. Why would we be any better with anyone else?

 

Why should we even risk that?

Right now, I think that sometimes too.  But we voted, and the decision has been made.

And look how badly we handled negotiating with the EU. Why would we be any better with anyone else?

Yes, this current crop are useless. We need a donald trump with a brain and morals haha... 

 

[ewerk 30266]

24 minutes ago, zerosum said:

It would get tough, yeah certainly. But as much as you say everyone would see us as desperate, on the other side of that coin there are also many who would be desperate to get easier access to the UK, without all the EU barriers. Over time (and it wouldn't be short term), new business opportunities would build, but that is just imo maybe I am wrong 

Where are these new opportunities that we can't get via the EU?

[Renton 21300]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

No Deal.

 

It's the only thing that will mean those leading the charge for this will actually have to suffer the consequences.

 

I see this point of view, but no deal really is an existential threat to the UK, politically and economically. On the other hand, would I gamble May will bottle it and rescind A50? Logic dictates she will. But then so far logic hasn't come into her thinking. 

[zerosum 234]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Where are these new opportunities that we can't get via the EU?

 

I dunno man, I can't see the exact future. If you hang on though, I'll go polish my crystal ball.

Are you trying to say there will be no new business to be done, EVER if we leave the EU without a deal? come on man.. don't be stupid. Of course there will. It won't be bad forever.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

i think rees-mogg was talking about the benefits rolling in in about 50 years time, so just in time for our kids' retirement. 

[Rayvin 5176]

7 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

I see this point of view, but no deal really is an existential threat to the UK, politically and economically. On the other hand, would I gamble May will bottle it and rescind A50? Logic dictates she will. But then so far logic hasn't come into her thinking. 

 

I'm just bloody minded about it now. A slow managed decline is arguably worse anyway, since people will just kind of accept it. A catastrophe will be painful and might shock people into some kind of coherent and appropriate response. Storming the houses of parliament perhaps.

[zerosum 234]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

i think rees-mogg was talking about the benefits rolling in in about 50 years time, so just in time for our kids' retirement. 

 Obviously no deal is not what a lot of people wanted.. including me. I'm just like the majority in this country, we don't dig as deep into politics as people in here. We were presented with ideas, and scenarios of how deals could work, and THOUGHT the people we pay to do this job (politicans) would get us the best outcome. Seems they didn't and can't.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

And what made you have any faith in our politicians whatsoever? They're that special mix of stupid and privileged which renders them completely lost in actual reality.

[ewerk 30266]

19 minutes ago, zerosum said:

 

I dunno man, I can't see the exact future. If you hang on though, I'll go polish my crystal ball.

Are you trying to say there will be no new business to be done, EVER if we leave the EU without a deal? come on man.. don't be stupid. Of course there will. It won't be bad forever.

I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is that there isn't enough new business out there that can be done that will offset our membership of the EU. It's the largest trading bloc in the world and we're sticking two fingers up to them. It's insane.

[ewerk 30266]

14 minutes ago, zerosum said:

 Obviously no deal is not what a lot of people wanted.. including me. I'm just like the majority in this country, we don't dig as deep into politics as people in here. We were presented with ideas, and scenarios of how deals could work, and THOUGHT the people we pay to do this job (politicans) would get us the best outcome. Seems they didn't and can't.

You were lied to. About 48% of the country could see they were being lied to. Those lies are being proven to be just that. Most leave voters won't admit they were conned but plenty will. Which is why another referendum is the only way to check to see whether the people are still happy to go ahead with the decision taken three years ago. 

[zerosum 234]

4 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

And what made you have any faith in our politicians whatsoever? They're that special mix of stupid and privileged which renders them completely lost in actual reality.

correct

[zerosum 234]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

You were lied to. About 48% of the country could see they were being lied to. Those lies are being proven to be just that. Most leave voters won't admit they were conned but plenty will. Which is why another referendum is the only way to check to see whether the people are still happy to go ahead with the decision taken three years ago. 

 

That is your opinion. No problem.

I'm disappointed with how it's all gone, that is certain. Maybe the only way is to choose again.. but what if it doesn't go remain? Do we have another 2 years of this crap?

Edited January 8, 2019 by zerosum

[zerosum 234]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I'm not saying that, what I'm saying is that there isn't enough new business out there that can be done that will offset our membership of the EU. It's the largest trading bloc in the world and we're sticking two fingers up to them. It's insane.

 

So you have delved into the specifics of possible new business around the globe that could be discovered over the next 10 years if we left the EU?

 

What I was saying is, yeah it will be tough.. and maybe never the same. But it's not the end like many try to make us think.

[ewerk 30266]

6 minutes ago, zerosum said:

 

That is your opinion. No problem.

I'm disappointed with how it's all gone, that is certain. Maybe the only way is to choose again.. but what if it doesn't go remain? Do we have another 2 years of this crap?

The fact that we were lied to isn't an opinion. It's a fact.