Europe --- In or Out

[zerosum 234]

I’ve had enough drama for one day.  night all. Apologies accepted Renton, sorry I said you were a fruit loop 

[Renton 21627]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

The Brexit drama on channel 4 will be on demand now if anyone needs cheering up

I'm watching it on plus one. Making out Cummings to be some kind of genius. Reality is, he's thick as pigs hit. 

[Renton 21627]

1 minute ago, zerosum said:

I’ve had enough drama for one day.  night all. Apologies accepted Renton, sorry I said you were a fruit loop 

 

No probs. Group hug etc. Apart from @Christmas Tree .

 

Only kidding CT.

 

 

[Tom 14011]

Tbh you'd need a group to hug CT. He's apparently very rotund.

[Meenzer 15531]

9 hours ago, zerosum said:

Obviously you’re all hardcore Labour. 

 

[Alex 35083]

9 hours ago, zerosum said:

Here’s a question to anyone on here who can be bothered to give a sane answer..

 

Obviously you’re all hardcore Labour. I’ve no problem with that, although it seems some have a problem with me because I’d consider myself a floating voter.

 

Would you never consider a vote any other way? What if policy changes and you’re not keen, or you don’t have faith in the leadership? Do you continue to vote “cos I’m Labour through and through” or do you consider alternatives?

 

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.. 

I’ve voted other than Labour on occasion but I’ve never voted Tory. I can’t see that changing any time soon as they basically stand for everything I detest. My biggest gripe with politics in this country though generally is probably the FPTP system which seems increasingly outdated and means most general elections are decided by those bastard floating voters  in the more marginal seats in the midlands (I think that’s the usual trend anyway). When you analyse it, it’s not remotely democratic but because it’s worked in the past and because it continues to suit the two main parties it prevails. I think that both Labour and the Tories are far too broad a church to properly represent the views of people who vote for them. It really needs to change but electoral reform isn’t even on the agenda (and even without the current Brexit chaos it still wouldn’t be). Incidentally the sort of ‘team supporting’ mentality you describe only applies to one person on here with regard to politics and they’re anything but Labour (even if they claim to have voted for them last time round). 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894]

10 hours ago, zerosum said:

Here’s a question to anyone on here who can be bothered to give a sane answer..

 

Obviously you’re all hardcore Labour. I’ve no problem with that, although it seems some have a problem with me because I’d consider myself a floating voter.

 

Would you never consider a vote any other way? What if policy changes and you’re not keen, or you don’t have faith in the leadership? Do you continue to vote “cos I’m Labour through and through” or do you consider alternatives?

 

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.. 

I vote SNP

[Dr Gloom 21924]

My voting history, which has been largely pointless, given I've always lived in a safe Labour seat. 

97: Labour

2001: Labour

2005: Lib Dem (Iraq protest) 

2010: Green (austerity protest)

2015: Labour

2017: Labour 

 

 

[ewerk 30616]

I've never voted Labour in my life.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

DUP?

[ewerk 30616]

A mixture of SDLP and Alliance.

The fact that Labour refuse to stand any candidates in NI kinda makes it difficult to vote for them.

[zerosum 234]

Bloody hell I got the complete wrong end of the stick didn’t I haha. I naturally assumed the reaction to my one Tory vote was a Labour backlash 

 

@Alex completely agree with that about the election system. I’ve often wondered if I should even bother voting as it won’t effect anything here. But then people kick off with you if you say “what’s the point” lol 

 

It would really interesting to see how things end up if votes were counted individually and not won by seats.

Edited January 8, 2019 by zerosum

[Dr Gloom 21924]

there are plenty of acceptable parties to vote for. the tories are never one of them

[zerosum 234]

I get what you’re saying. I just couldn’t stomach milliband, and honestly didn’t believe he had anything in him that would pull the country off it’s knees. Couldn’t see any other party getting in so.. rest is history.

[zerosum 234]

I didn’t realise that there were so many non-newcastle based posters here too. Toon fans everywhere 

[Rayvin 5223]

I've always voted Labour but I've rarely been happy about it. I actually shared your view on Miliband but voted for him anyway because i felt the Tories would be more dangerous (I stand by that vote).

 

Now, I'm probably going to give up voting as well. One of my favourite pieces of research with respect of voting intentions is the one that shows if you have people vote on policies rather than parties, and then match the outcome to the party that most closely delivers the most popular policies, the Greens would win with about a 60% share of the electorate. The Tories drop to around 10%.

 

I was very disillusioned with Labour until Corbyn, who was someone I could see making a difference and at least pulling the party to the left. Now I'm disillusioned with him because of his ludicrous Brexit stance.

 

I would genuinely be happy with a dictatorship of some form now, as long as it was benevolent.

[Renton 21627]

Where I am it's relatively a marginal between labour and Conservative. For me that's a no brainer. When I was politically active, relatively speaking, in labour I was an ardent supporter of PR. I soon realised Labour wouldn't ditch the goose that laid the golden egg (FPTP) and I've been demoralised ever since. I just can't see things improving with the present system. 

[zerosum 234]

16 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I've always voted Labour but I've rarely been happy about it. I actually shared your view on Miliband but voted for him anyway because i felt the Tories would be more dangerous (I stand by that vote).

 

Now, I'm probably going to give up voting as well. One of my favourite pieces of research with respect of voting intentions is the one that shows if you have people vote on policies rather than parties, and then match the outcome to the party that most closely delivers the most popular policies, the Greens would win with about a 60% share of the electorate. The Tories drop to around 10%.

 

I was very disillusioned with Labour until Corbyn, who was someone I could see making a difference and at least pulling the party to the left. Now I'm disillusioned with him because of his ludicrous Brexit stance.

 

I would genuinely be happy with a dictatorship of some form now, as long as it was benevolent.

 

For me it’s not just his Brexit stance. I think he would simply say anything to become PM. All that crap last time around, whooping up the students with promises of clearing student debt and uni fees (brilliant if it could be done tbh but it hadn’t been thought through- pure PR stunt) and his glasto appearance - nuff said lol. 

 

Then the other thing is, this is a guy who for last few decades has been so far left he fell off the edge, but suddenly he’s not as far left as he was . Just because he wants to be PM. Giving up your lifetime values to me smells of a desperation to be in power, by any means.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

benevolent dictatorships don't grow on trees

[Meenzer 15531]

My vote round here is so worthless I even voted for the Women's Equality Party last time round. FPTP FTW.

[Rayvin 5223]

1 hour ago, zerosum said:

 

For me it’s not just his Brexit stance. I think he would simply say anything to become PM. All that crap last time around, whooping up the students with promises of clearing student debt and uni fees (brilliant if it could be done tbh but it hadn’t been thought through- pure PR stunt) and his glasto appearance - nuff said lol. 

 

Then the other thing is, this is a guy who for last few decades has been so far left he fell off the edge, but suddenly he’s not as far left as he was . Just because he wants to be PM. Giving up your lifetime values to me smells of a desperation to be in power, by any means.

 

Which values did he change besides his fairly nebulous Brexit position? 

[zerosum 234]

Maybe he’s not changed. He just doesn’t seem to me to be the far left character he used to be. Edit.. I just think he’s a fraud, and can’t vote for him.

Edited January 8, 2019 by zerosum

[Rayvin 5223]

I read each of the Labour candidate manifestos in the leadership run up (the first one) with the view initially that I was going to vote for Yvette Cooper, having heard some good things about her from someone who used to work with her. Then it became clear that Corbyn's manifesto was just so much better, and so much more likely to resolve the country's issues, that it became impossible for me to vote for anyone else.

 

It's not extreme left, it's moderate left. I see it as a move towards a mixed economy model as with the scandinavian countries. He only lost me because of Brexit which, I will confess, is a largely selfish issue for me (as much as I believe that in this case, my own interests are fairly well aligned with everyone else's).

[zerosum 234]

Back on topic.. question for all.

 

If, you could have a vote on no deal or Theresa’s “deal”.. where would your vote go?

 

Obviously I imagine you’d like another referendum.. but for the sake of the question.. 

[ewerk 30616]

The answer is obviously May's deal. It means a massive loss in sovereignty and damage to the economy but nowhere nearly as much as no deal would. This normalisation of no deal or as it's more often being termed 'WTO deal' is a disgrace being pushed by idiots.