Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Aye, I can't see any way in which a powerful black man supporting one side of the debate would embolden underachieving closet racists to support the other side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 It's true that Remain had all the experts on their side. But unfortunately the gammon had had enough of experts. Much better to listen to vile racists snake oil merchants like Farage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Anti-establishment sentiment. That's why the experts, Obama, the forecasts and all the might of Remain ultimately failed. I'm tempted to even agree with CT that the spend was irrelevant - I mean Remain did spend more. A significant proportion, perhaps even the majority, of people who voted leave did so to kick the establishment as hard as they could. That narrative is repeating all over the world, even in countries like Brazil and Thailand. And yes, it's not lost on me that the people coming into power as a result are about as pro-establishment as it gets. But it is lost on the people voting for them. Populism is winning. And we're going to keep repeating this farcical situation, apparently across the world, until the centre wakes up to it. #goteamcentre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: A significant proportion, perhaps even the majority, of people who voted leave did so to kick the establishment as hard as they could. That narrative is repeating all over the world What if they're idiots? What can the "centre" ever do to appease idiots who are idiotic and vote for idiotic things? (No offence, CT.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Meenzer said: What if they're idiots? I don't see the two things as mutually exclusive. They're certainly idiots for thinking that people like Trump and Farage aren't establishment in all but social philosophies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 32 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: You even had Obama and his back of the queue stuff man. It was absolute David v Goliath stuff You've missed the point. What Obama said wasn't against the law. The taxpayer funded letter wasn't against the law. BoE scare stories, guess what?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35083 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said: A few ads on Facebook compared to 3 political parties, the Bank of England, project fear, the threat of a “punishment” budget and a taxpayer leaflet to every home in the country. And you’re an accountant Which of the two persuaded you again? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) We’ve spent three years telling the moron that Brexit couldn’t deliver what he wanted. He’s now seen the deal that confirms that Brexit still doesn’t deliver what he wanted and yet he’s still in denial that he was wrong. Edited January 2, 2019 by ewerk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Meenzer said: What if they're idiots? What can the "centre" ever do to appease idiots who are idiotic and vote for idiotic things? (No offence, CT.) I think the only thing that will get through to people like CT is a catastrophic Brexit. Even then, you know he will find someone else to blame. At the minute we have the worst of all worlds, we have a boiling frog scenario where everything is in decline but not so bad people can see the cause and effect. If May gets her deal, this will just continue, death by a thousand cuts. Under no deal at least it would be clear what the cause was. Maybe it would finally get rid of English eceptionalism. But I doubt it and don't want to be collateral damage. Tell you what though, I despise the likes of CT who have robbed my kids the chance to move if they want to. For what? The complete cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Meenzer said: What if they're idiots? What can the "centre" ever do to appease idiots who are idiotic and vote for idiotic things? (No offence, CT.) Sorry, just saw the edit - Honestly, I think we need to look at the social aspects of political divide. The centre actually already looks after things that most right wing crazies get worked up about, they just need to make it a lot more fucking visible. Actually engage in debate with the people leading the populism and show them up rather than no platforming the shit out of everyone and then wondering how people like Tommy Robinson can have a large following of people who think he's right about everything despite making no coherent arguments. I was thinking about this the other day. So much of this is tied into the culture of political correctness and the overstepping of policing of what people can and can't say (and whether they're right about the extent of it or not, people are fucking annoyed about it) that all we probably do need to win this in the short term is a centrist leader who comes out and stands up against the reactionary left rhetoric, makes a big show about protecting British values, investing in immigrant integration, promoting social things that are important to these people (without infringing on the actual rights of any minorities of course). The left would be after him or her with all guns, and the right would love them. They don't change anything but who cares, it's the narrative that matters. Longer term, honestly, I still think the EU has lost the battle on immigration - and I think the West needs to look at it properly. Rightly or wrongly, and it is wrongly, our countries are rejecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Renton said: I think the only thing that will get through to people like CT is a catastrophic Brexit. Even then, you know he will find someone else to blame. Also agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 8 minutes ago, Renton said: we have a boiling frog scenario where everything is in decline but not so bad people can see the cause and effect This is what those "BUT REMANE SAID IT WOULD BE APOCALYPSE!!1" arguments fail to take into account. The reason it hasn't been that bad yet is precisely because it's been in enough people's interest to make sure things at least continue with some semblance of normality because, y'know, human decency and stuff. But there comes a point where that isn't within our control any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Honestly, I think we need to look at the social aspects of political divide. The centre actually already looks after things that most right wing crazies get worked up about, they just need to make it a lot more fucking visible. Actually engage in debate with the people leading the populism and show them up rather than no platforming the shit out of everyone and then wondering how people like Tommy Robinson can have a large following of people who think he's right about everything despite making no coherent arguments. I was thinking about this the other day. So much of this is tied into the culture of political correctness and the overstepping of policing of what people can and can't say (and whether they're right about the extent of it or not, people are fucking annoyed about it) that all we probably do need to win this in the short term is a centrist leader who comes out and stands up against the reactionary left rhetoric, makes a big show about protecting British values, investing in immigrant integration, promoting social things that are important to these people (without infringing on the actual rights of any minorities of course). The left would be after him or her with all guns, and the right would love them. They don't change anything but who cares, it's the narrative that matters. Longer term, honestly, I still think the EU has lost the battle on immigration - and I think the West needs to look at it properly. Rightly or wrongly, and it is wrongly, our countries are rejecting it. A bit like you've given up the fight re centrism, I don't really see the point any more. If people have to be actively led to the point where they understand basic fundamental truths about the way humanity works - if they have absolutely no curiosity, no desire, no ability to think about these things - then really, why bother. You'll win one battle and the next one will immediately appear on the horizon. If we really are that thick as a species, let us reap the rewards. Fuck us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Also happy new year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Meenzer said: A bit like you've given up the fight, I don't really see the point any more. If people have to be actively led to the point where they understand basic fundamental truths about the way humanity works - if they have absolutely no curiosity, no desire, no ability to think about these things - then really, why bother. You'll win one battle and the next one will immediately appear on the horizon. If we really are that thick as a species, let us reap the rewards. Fuck us. Well said. Benevolent dictatorship is the only viable option IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Longer term, honestly, I still think the EU has lost the battle on immigration - and I think the West needs to look at it properly. Rightly or wrongly, and it is wrongly, our countries are rejecting it. Do you mean immigration within the EU? I'd say the rest of the EU are very happy with that. The young here are too. It's just older bigots like CT who reject it. Problem FoM is constantly conflated with external immigration by people with an agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Do you mean immigration within the EU? I'd say the rest of the EU are very happy with that. The young here are too. It's just older bigots like CT who reject it. Problem FoM is constantly conflated with external immigration by people with an agenda. I mean external immigration. And I mean it in exactly the sense you're talking. If other EU countries are consistently taking in refugees and immigrants from external countries, then over time those people will be naturalised into the country in question, and then open to FOM. I mean, I have no idea how many of them would then bother moving after establishing their lives there, but I doubt the people on the other side of this argument care even slightly. Although I would say that people certainly did seem to have an issue with Polish and Romanian people entering the country, at least at one point. I believe that in the coming decade, in order to combat populism, the EU will start cracking down hard on border control and external immigration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I mean external immigration. And I mean it in exactly the sense you're talking. If other EU countries are consistently taking in refugees and immigrants from external countries, then over time those people will be naturalised into the country in question, and then open to FOM. I mean, I have no idea how many of them would then bother moving after establishing their lives there, but I doubt the people on the other side of this argument care even slightly. Although I would say that people certainly did seem to have an issue with Polish and Romanian people entering the country, at least at one point. I believe that in the coming decade, in order to combat populism, the EU will start cracking down hard on border control and external immigration. Merkel was very irresponsible imo. I don't know what you do about refugees tbh. Hardly an issue for us as we aren't in Schenghen and take in hardly any refugees, but perception is everything unfortunately. I'm genuinely curious what Brexiter will think when EU migrants are replaced by non-EU ones mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15531 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Given the full-on national crisis that's been triggered by a couple of dozen refugees in dinghies, I'm sure we'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3894 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Just now, Meenzer said: Given the full-on national crisis that's been triggered by a couple of dozen refugees in dinghies, I'm sure we'll be fine. We’ll be truly fucked if one of them has a drone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 or pretends to have a drone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 so to sum up, rayvin, the majority of people in the world are stupid and trump/orban/bolsonaro/brexit etc is what they deserve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The arguments over Banks's electoral spending also ignores the direct Russian Cambridge Analytica based targeted ads as well. As an aside on the idiots assertions about project fear, I've also read today that the ftse has fallen by an amount in the last year which exceeds the UK's entire 45 year contribution to the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 42 minutes ago, Renton said: Do you mean immigration within the EU? I'd say the rest of the EU are very happy with that. The young here are too. It's just older bigots like CT who reject it. Problem FoM is constantly conflated with external immigration by people with an agenda. mr anti-estabishment farage has really been sticking it to the elites recently 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: so to sum up, rayvin, the majority of people in the world are stupid and trump/orban/bolsonaro/brexit etc is what they deserve? I don't know if I used the word deserve. The majority of people are stupid, and trump/orban/bolsonaro/brexit is what they choose. Although I guess you could argue that they deserve the consequences of their choice. Edited January 2, 2019 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.thumb.png.403f4a475ac3bb53997c2626c09ef800.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now