Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4725]

6 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

 

Youve resorted to fake news

[ewerk 30616]

Quote

Let me help refresh your memory 

 

 

 

"I'm not the one calling someone a liar, that's you. 

 

You might be fit, you might eat super healthy, but calling some a liar shows quite a lack of class IMO.

 

I don't have to prove anything nor does anyone else who makes any statement on here.

 

I've offered you the chance to prove it but you have chickened out. If your big enough to call someone a liar you really should have the class to back it up.

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 I’m simply asking if it’s a true poll or if you are now just posting fake stuff. 

 

Naturally, I always take your opinion very very seriously and trust you will clarify yourself when you feel comfortable.

 

Interestingly, the poll god, John Curtice was quoted on Marr today as confirming no real change in positions between leave and remain voting intentions.

[Rayvin 5223]

Yougov always seems to be the poll most endorsing of left wing positions IMO. Generally the most pro Labour one. Although i might just think that because it was the only one to get ahead of Theresa May's mauling at the last GE.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30616]

Quote

Sir, The analysis “Nine versions of a People’s Vote: how a referendum could look” (News, Dec 13) does not reflect YouGov’s latest polling data on Brexit. The following are its most recent results on the main issues (and like the analysis, I exclude “don’t knows”). Asked how they would vote in a new referendum, 55 per cent of Britain’s voters say Remain, 45 per cent Leave. If the choice is Remain versus the government’s withdrawal agreement, Remain wins 62-38 per cent. If the choice is Remain versus no deal, Remain wins 57-43 per cent. In a three-way choice, Remain has 54 per cent support; leaving the EU without a deal, 28 per cent; leaving the EU with the proposed deal, 18 per cent.

In the analysis’s final projection, for a three-option referendum, the prime minister’s deal scores 87 per cent, Remain 56 per cent, and no deal 48 per cent. Apart from bearing no relation to any YouGov survey that I have seen, these figures fail the first test of percentages: the numbers need to add up to 100. 
Peter Kellner
Former president, YouGov

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-tory-confidence-ballot-and-a-people-s-vote-8v952rlr9

[ewerk 30616]

38 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 I’m simply asking if it’s a true poll or if you are now just posting fake stuff. 

I don’t post ‘fake stuff’, you fat sack of shit.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

43 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Yougov always seems to be the poll most endorsing of left wing positions IMO. Generally the most pro Labour one. 

 

Here is today’s.

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/times-letters-tory-confidence-ballot-and-a-people-s-vote-8v952rlr9

 

That wasn’t that hard was it

[ewerk 30616]

And yet you were incapable of doing it yourself.

[ewerk 30616]

3 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Here is today’s.

 

 

 Pull the vote on the deal you’ve spent nearly two years negotiating, try to oust your leader at one of the most critical political and economic junctures in recent times, have your leader thoroughly embarrassed in Europe and the result is a two point bounce in the polls.

Labour are really shit.

Edited December 16, 2018 by ewerk

[Renton 21627]

35 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 Pull the vote on the deal you’ve spent nearly two years negotiating, try to oust your leader at one of the most critical political and economic junctures in recent times, have your leader thoroughly embarrassed in Europe and the result is a two point bounce in the polls.

Labour are really shit.

 

Miliband wouldn't have done any better [/Rayvin]. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Yawn.

[Renton 21627]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Yawn.

The joke is boring, but it's important. You used to believe what I posted (ie corbyn would do better than a "blairite") , and have since shifted your goal post to "a centrist wouldn't make any difference anyway" to the country's future. 

 

But you're still wrong on both counts. I just want you to admit what an utter fucking disaster Corbyn has been, he's part of the fucking perfect storm which is wrecking this country. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Renton

[Alex 35083]

4 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

That wasn’t that hard was it

You seem to find it impossible 

[Rayvin 5223]

1 minute ago, Renton said:

The joke is boring, but it's important. You used to believe what I posted (ie corbyn would do better than a "blairite") , and have since shifted your goal post to "a centrist wouldn't make any difference anyway" to the country's future. 

 

But you're still wrong on both counts. I just want you to admit what an utter fucking disaster Corbyn has been, he's part of the fucking perfect storm which is wrecking this country. 

 

That won't happen because the country was wrecked pre-Corbyn, in my view. His ability to manage the aftermath of the wreckage is poor to non-existent, but the centre wrecked the world. Not even just the UK. The world.

[Rayvin 5223]

Also not sure why every other political party gets a free ride. Why haven't the LDs picked up? They're pretty fucking centrist.

 

Labour is holding strong with the people who were always voting for it. The Tories are being propped up by fucking morons who we have to cater to all the time with this centrist bollocks. I wouldn't change anything, no. I wrote two or three years ago that my view was that the left had to dig its heels in and hold its nose until eventually, people had to choose it. And I suspect it will. Come hell or high water, it needs to dig in.

 

If I could be convinced that the centre could be trusted not to dump austerities, Brexits, and Donald Trumps onto the world, then maybe I'd think otherwise.

[Renton 21627]

18 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Also not sure why every other political party gets a free ride. Why haven't the LDs picked up? They're pretty fucking centrist.

 

Labour is holding strong with the people who were always voting for it. The Tories are being propped up by fucking morons who we have to cater to all the time with this centrist bollocks. I wouldn't change anything, no. I wrote two or three years ago that my view was that the left had to dig its heels in and hold its nose until eventually, people had to choose it. And I suspect it will. Come hell or high water, it needs to dig in.

 

If I could be convinced that the centre could be trusted not to dump austerities, Brexits, and Donald Trumps onto the world, then maybe I'd think otherwise.

 

LDs are always fucked because of FPTP. More so when the election is so important. I would vote LD now weren't it for the political set up. 

 

It's amazing you still blame Donald Trump on the Centrists, rather than Donald fucking Trump. Thing is, it's obvious when the centre fails outside a literal revolution, the swing is always to the right, not the left. You, just like Momentum, are essentially enablers. 

[Rayvin 5223]

Riiiiight.

 

We're enabling Trump by having no power whatsoever. In the UK, you could maybe make that argument. It'd be a bad one, but you could make it. In the US, the left had no power at all - the centrists lost to Trump my friend. Least popular president in history, at the time of being elected, and they still lost to him.

 

Good grief man, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes all over again if you don't wake up. What about Macron? The collapse of the centre elsewhere in Europe? The rise of the right in centrist Germany?

 

I know you fucking hate Corbyn, but if you want this to stop you need to reform the centre. Not the left.

 

Also, btw, I never shifted goalposts. I admitted I was wrong about Corbyn being the answer as an individual. My positions remain the same otherwise.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

The Corbyn / momentum thing (when the history books are written), will probably be viewed in a similar way to Brexit.

 

People not happy with the status quo, lead a merry dance by a few shadowy figures, a “popular” frontman, some clever social media and a gullible congregation.

 

Thats about it in a nutshell.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Watched about 10 minutes of Blair yesterday and was a bit in awe of what a very special politician he still is.

[Renton 21627]

26 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Riiiiight.

 

We're enabling Trump by having no power whatsoever. In the UK, you could maybe make that argument. It'd be a bad one, but you could make it. In the US, the left had no power at all - the centrists lost to Trump my friend. Least popular president in history, at the time of being elected, and they still lost to him.

 

Good grief man, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes all over again if you don't wake up. What about Macron? The collapse of the centre elsewhere in Europe? The rise of the right in centrist Germany?

 

I know you fucking hate Corbyn, but if you want this to stop you need to reform the centre. Not the left.

 

Also, btw, I never shifted goalposts. I admitted I was wrong about Corbyn being the answer as an individual. My positions remain the same otherwise.

 

 

How the fuck can the left centre reform when Corbyn has hijacked it? There is no central party left. In our political system, you can only have 2 parties with a chance of power, as proven by the SDP split in the 80s. 

 

Lets just get back to ewerk's point. Look at the fucking state of the tory party. Its almost unbelievable that despite this they are polling better than the opposition. Corbyn is as much as the problem as the tories. Perfect storm of ineptness. 

[Meenzer 15531]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

People not happy with the status quo, lead a merry dance by a few shadowy figures, a “popular” frontman, some clever social media and a gullible congregation.

 

Don't be so harsh on yourself.  

[Andrew 4757]

Reports today that JLR are to axe "up to 5000 jobs" in the new year.

 

https://www.ft.com/content/c4f06f8e-ff99-11e8-aebf-99e208d3e521

 

Quote

JLR, which employs 40,000 people in the UK, has been stung by sliding demand for diesel, poor sales in China and costs of preparing for Britain’s departure from the EU.

 

[Renton 21627]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Watched about 10 minutes of Blair yesterday and was a bit in awe of what a very special politician he still is.

 

Maybe you should consider that all the elder statesmen, Blair, Brown, Major (and I'm sure Thatcher  would have been) are all vehemently opposed to Brexit. Far superior people to the current crop of shit heads. Even Thatcher. 

[Alex 35083]

16 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

The Corbyn / momentum thing (when the history books are written), will probably be viewed in a similar way to Brexit.

 

People not happy with the status quo, lead a merry dance by a few shadowy figures, a “popular” frontman, some clever social media and a gullible congregation.

 

Thats about it in a nutshell.

Well you voted for both