Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 30616]

18 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 No thanks. We’ve had 2 years of this so pretty much know all the various arguments for and against Brexit.

 

The bottom line is nobody has a clue what the actual financial position will be in 15 years time. The guy from the FT and most serious financial professionals have said this.

 

For example, this sort of analysis takes no measure of whether there’s another crash, a eurozone meltdown, the effects of AI etc etc.

 

More importantly, who is in government over that period will have much more of an impact of GDP in 15 years time than Brexit. 

 

Brexit is all about being a sovereign country once again with full control of our money, laws, fishing, who we want to trade with etc.

So 99% of economists are wrong or being deliberately biased? 

You list those things at the end but we are going to end up paying money for SM access, we are going to abide by EU laws with no say in them, we're going to have to give fishing quotas to other EU nations and our trade will be defined by the EU customs union.

So you're getting none of what you asked for. 'Cracking'.  

[ewerk 30616]

Labour finally moving towards a PV.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

12 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Labour finally moving towards a PV.

this is big - link to the whole story? 

[ewerk 30616]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-46371439/mcdonnell-on-may-facing-no-confidence-vote-and-new-referendum

[Isegrim 9777]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 No thanks. We’ve had 2 years of this so pretty much know all the various arguments for and against Brexit.

 

The bottom line is nobody has a clue what the actual financial position will be in 15 years time. The guy from the FT and most serious financial professionals have said this.

 

For example, this sort of analysis takes no measure of whether there’s another crash, a eurozone meltdown, the effects of AI etc etc.

 

More importantly, who is in government over that period will have much more of an impact of GDP in 15 years time than Brexit. 

 

Brexit is all about being a sovereign country once again with full control of our money, laws, fishing, who we want to trade with etc.

...and to get rid of all the pesky foreigners.

[Dr Gloom 21924]

the bank of england playing the political game too by the looks of it 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

9 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

the bank of england playing the political game too by the looks of it 

 

 

 On the same day as the treasury. Not a coordinated project fear at all

 

As Gordon Browns man on the BoE MPC says.

 

 

[Renton 21627]

17 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 On the same day as the treasury. Not a coordinated project fear at all

 

As Gordon Browns man on the BoE MPC says.

 

 

Hold on, I thought you'd accepted a disorderly no deal was very bad news. Have you changed your mind again? Are you seriously saying cutting our ties entirely with the EU, as envisaged in this scenario, wouldn't cause serious damage.

 

Literally none of the forecasts that have been made can find any benefits, other than the dystopian Minford one. I can understand you are somewhat sceptical as to the extent of the impact, but to pretend it's all fine and dandy. I mean, wouldn't you want some concrete tangible benefits before even considering taking the risk? 

[Dr Gloom 21924]

The independent BoE clearly playing the political game to force another referendum. Why shouldn’t a disorderly Brexit be orderly? 

[Alex 35083]

A real world scenario I can’t recall happening before is the Chancellor of the Exchequer going on tv and telling people the policy the government would like to pursue will make us all poorer

[Dr Gloom 21924]

BAU tbh

[Alex 35083]

Imagine CT’s take if these organisations we’re supporting his POV btw 😂

Edited November 28, 2018 by Alex

[Renton 21627]

And since when has a cracking deal meant being worse off? What type of idiot makes that logic work?

 

It's not about the money they now claim. Failing to realise seemingly that money in this context isn't just cash in pocket, but all our public services. We're already 500 million a week worse off, more than twice our real membership fee ffs, and we haven't even left yet.

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

And since when has a cracking deal meant being worse off? What type of idiot makes that logic work?

 

It's not about the money they now claim. Failing to realise seemingly that money in this context isn't just cash in pocket, but all our public services. We're already 500 million a week worse off, more than twice our real membership fee ffs, and we haven't even left yet.

 

 

 

 

Hey, I’ve said from day one I’m only onboard as long as it can be made to work without much disruption, but no, only a fool would believe this coordinated project fear mk 2.

 

As for the money, a few billion here or there doesn’t really effect the average man in the street and as I said earlier, who is in power could have much more impact on GDP in 15 years than which Brexit path we take.

 

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

A real world scenario I can’t recall happening before is the Chancellor of the Exchequer going on tv and telling people the policy the government would like to pursue will make us all poorer

 

The announcement of austerity was exactly that.

[Renton 21627]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Hey, I’ve said from day one I’m only onboard as long as it can be made to work without much disruption, but no, only a fool would believe this coordinated project fear mk 2.

 

As for the money, a few billion here or there doesn’t really effect the average man in the street and as I said earlier, who is in power could have much more impact on GDP in 15 years than which Brexit path we take.

 

 

 

A 5% reduction in GDP, a real possibility of things go wrong, is near enough half the NHS. The worst estimate for the NE was 18%!  Why the fuck risk it?

 

And no, we can't predict the geopolitics of the future, doesn't mean we shouldn't minimise risk now though does it, by cooperating with our neighbours? You've not named a single feasible benefit worth any risk. 

[Andrew 4756]

For anyone who hasn't its worth a look into the Daily Mails recent headline poll

[JonGoodwyn 1]

7 minutes ago, Andrew said:

For anyone who hasn't its worth a look into the Daily Mails recent headline poll

Fair to say it's been interpreted a few different ways! 

[Andrew 4756]

3 minutes ago, JonGoodwyn said:

Fair to say it's been interpreted a few different ways! 

 

Yeah they've gone out with that headline but its not remotely backed up by the actual poll results which are inside the paper in smaller print and entirely available to the public, but they got their headline out there and thats really all that matters.

[ewerk 30616]

47 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 as I said earlier, who is in power could have much more impact on GDP in 15 years than which Brexit path we take.

 

 

 

So what’s the point in Brexit if it’s all down to what government we elect?

[Dr Gloom 21924]

Taking back control, duh. 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

Wheels well and truly coming off CT's arguments now.

 

Just own it man. Sometimes people are just fucking wrong.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30616]

I mean, if anyone has had experience of being wrong on here it’s you.

[Andrew 4756]

If you keep saying project fear it makes all the independent forecasts/research go away.

 

I wish I were joking.

[Andrew 4756]

If this goes to a peoples vote, how do I vote from abroad?