Renton 21627 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Aye but nationalism has been intelligently wielded by the far right with the argument that a 'nationalist' can be someone of any colour, who wants what is best for the country. Unlike a racist. Xenophobia is a better word. EU immigrants are predominantly white, doesn't stop people hating them though. There's a huge difference between nationalism and patriotism, only one of them makes you a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Really. Then explain why, with some noticeable exceptions, areas with high EU immigration voted Remain and areas with virtually none, like Sunderland, voted Leave. This proves the issue is a scape goat to appeal to certain individuals baser nature. Tubs himself had to invent anecdotes about polish people sleeping 10 to a room stealing jobs in the ship yards. How do you counter that? Expose the lie or juat shuffle looking at your feet? Yep, I agree, but we've lost the fucking argument. We just have. It doesn't make sense, it's based on fucking nothing, but we need a change of narrative to counter it because 'everything is fine, stop overreacting' isn't working against irrational people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Renton said: Nationalism and racism or xenophobia are cousins. I was just being mischievous. The comments you quoted were Ewerks from a previous immigration debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I honestly think we have to back away from this argument - and by 'we', I mean the rational people in society. Whether we're right in our views on it or not, we've clearly lost the argument for now at least. Continuing to force this issue (and I do think that there are some valid concerns from 'the other side' on this, especially concerning the government's ongoing failure to integrate people into society, which appears to consist of relying on the children of immigrants to be 'normalised' by TV and school) is only making the centre look apathetic to the concerns of the lower middle and working classes, and they no longer trust the establishment voices above the right wing outlets and the crazies. I wish the EU itself would understand that immigration has just been too much for some people, and that the chance they had to shape the narrative around it has been lost. There's too much at stake across Europe now with the rise of the far right everywhere, and the longer they fail to address it, the harder they'll have to be when they finally do act on it. That's utter namby pamby bollocks. To stand by and let the vilification of ordinary decent people continue is absolute cowardice. I saw a longer version of this the other day (which I can't find now) that shows that people who are anti-immigrant largely haven't got anything of substance behind their views. They've simply accepted the line that has been pushed on them for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: I was just being mischievous. The comments you quoted were Ewerks from a previous immigration debate. Got that pitch ready, chief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I was just being mischievous. The comments you quoted were Ewerks from a previous immigration debate. Tbf I believe you when you say your not a xenophobe or racist, and immigration wasn't an issue for you. Trouble is, it's about all May's deal delivers on. Still think it's cracking? Because apart from stopping FoM, for us as well as EU nationals, what does it actually improve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4386 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 May's racist rhetoric is aimed at the tory base - mainly old, mainly southern. Theres nothing that will change their minds apart from death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 25 minutes ago, Renton said: Tbf I believe you when you say your not a xenophobe or racist, and immigration wasn't an issue for you. Trouble is, it's about all May's deal delivers on. Still think it's cracking? Because apart from stopping FoM, for us as well as EU nationals, what does it actually improve? It basically all depends how it turns out given that it’s still all rhetoric at this stage and is yet to be negotiated. I could be persuaded by remain, Mays deal or leaving on WTO given different circumstances. I think it’s only going get sorted properly by a general election, but only if Labour are honest enough to go into it backing remain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: It basically all depends how it turns out given that it’s still all rhetoric at this stage and is yet to be negotiated. I could be persuaded by remain, Mays deal or leaving on WTO given different circumstances. I think it’s only going get sorted properly by a general election, but only if Labour are honest enough to go into it backing remain. Come on, CT. I’ve got the Australian trade delegation waiting in reception. What can I offer them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Come on, CT. I’ve got the Australian trade delegation waiting in reception. What can I offer them? I’ve told you, watch the news. May discussed the Australian potential tie up at the CBI yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: I’ve told you, watch the news. May discussed the Australian potential tie up at the CBI yesterday. The only thing she said about Australia was that their citizens could use e-gates at passport control. FFS, I need to offer them more than that. You’ve had a week now to look into this. What can we offer them in a trade deal?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Australia is literally on the other side of the world. CT, have you a single clue on the logistics and costs of shipping there? There's a decent YouTube called 3 men in a pub which discusses this, worth a look. Oh, and Australia is a small country population wise, so not much to be gained. And apart from that, they've already prioritised a trade deal with the EU over us, for obvious reasons. They don't give a shit about the Commonwealth of the anglosphere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44889 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 The increasing desperation from these ERG cunts is so transparently driven by the fact that they are financially incentivised to make the shitshow of no deal happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: It basically all depends how it turns out given that it’s still all rhetoric at this stage and is yet to be negotiated. I could be persuaded by remain, Mays deal or leaving on WTO given different circumstances. I think it’s only going get sorted properly by a general election, but only if Labour are honest enough to go into it backing remain. Well it was announced yesterday the government will publish economic analysis comparing no deal vs may's deal vs FTA vs remain. Will you take any notice? Will you fuck as like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 That post is the beginning of his u-turn. Obviously given his morbid obesity it may take him some time to complete the turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 31 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The increasing desperation from these ERG cunts is so transparently driven by the fact that they are financially incentivised to make the shitshow of no deal happen. Such a cross section of society surely must speak for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: That post is the beginning of his u-turn. Obviously given his morbid obesity it may take him some time to complete the turn. I've seen milk turn quicker etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21627 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, ewerk said: Such a cross section of society surely must speak for the country. Has JRM got each arse cheek resting on a huge deckchair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17274 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Not that she doesn't want to oust our second female PM, she just doesn't want to be seen doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, ewerk said: The only thing she said about Australia was that their citizens could use e-gates at passport control. FFS, I need to offer them more than that. You’ve had a week now to look into this. What can we offer them in a trade deal?!? As usual, you’re wrong Can I suggest you use google to find out what she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Australia is literally on the other side of the world. CT, have you a single clue on the logistics and costs of shipping there? There's a decent YouTube called 3 men in a pub which discusses this, worth a look. Oh, and Australia is a small country population wise, so not much to be gained. And apart from that, they've already prioritised a trade deal with the EU over us, for obvious reasons. They don't give a shit about the Commonwealth of the anglosphere. But he asked me about Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, ewerk said: Not that she doesn't want to oust our second female PM, she just doesn't want to be seen doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30616 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: As usual, you’re wrong Can I suggest you use google to find out what she said. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-to-cbi-19-november-2018 There's here speech. Now what did she say about an Australian trade deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, ewerk said: Such a cross section of society surely must speak for the country. global britain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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