Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Just now, ewerk said:

Stop deflecting. Speak to a real person who could be a victim of your vote.

 

I’m sorry, I’m not playing your game. Unless you agree that all Labour voters should apologise for the millions who died because of Iraq or because of the millions who suffered because of labours crash.

[ewerk 30616]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m sorry, I’m not playing your game. Unless you agree that all Labour voters should apologise for the millions who died because of Iraq or because of the millions who suffered because of labours crash.

Not all Labour voters were in favour of the Iraq war. There were huge numbers against it.

This isn't about political parties, it is about one specific issue that you have supported and how it may result in a member of this board losing his job. But you're a fucking coward who refuses to address how your vote is affecting real people. You're a perfect example of a 'I'm alright Jack' cunt who is happy to see other people suffer as long as it doesn't mean you having to admit that you're wrong.

[Alex 35083]

13 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I’m sorry, I’m not playing your game. Unless you agree that all Labour voters should apologise for the millions who died because of Iraq or because of the millions who suffered because of labours crash.

And yet to you it all is a game

[Renton 21627]

53 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 You always frame it as though it’s EU trade or the rest of the world. No, it’s continued EU trade AND more freedom to do UK FTA’s.

 

No, that how you Brexiteers frame it. I know we already  have the best deal possible with the largest trading bloc in the world, as well as having preferential trading relationships with dozens of countries through the combined leverage the EU gives us. And nothing to stop us trading with any country the EU hasn't yet got a deal with yet either.

 

You mental Brexiteers literally are prepared to throw this all away and make us the only nation in the world without a deal with literally anyone. Then you have faith in the genius Liam Fox to get us better deals than a bloc of 500 million can get! 

 

It'd be funny if it wasn't going to actually happen. How fucking thick do you need to be to swallow the ERG bullshit? CT levels of thickness.

 

P.S. you cited TTIP as a reason to leave the EU earlier in this thread. You seriously think Fox is going to get us a more preferential deal with the US, under fucking Trump, than the EU would?

 

 

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

48 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Not all Labour voters were in favour of the Iraq war. There were huge numbers against it.

This isn't about political parties, it is about one specific issue that you have supported and how it may result in a member of this board losing his job. But you're a fucking coward who refuses to address how your vote is affecting real people. You're a perfect example of a 'I'm alright Jack' cunt who is happy to see other people suffer as long as it doesn't mean you having to admit that you're wrong.

 

Stop acting like a spoiled little tart. We live in a democracy and all our votes have a real life effect. Labour votes directly lead to millions of deaths.

 

Now have you anything to say about the 3 million extra jobs? Probably not you utter charlatan.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

6 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

No, that how you Brexiteers frame it. I know we already  have the best deal possible with the largest trading bloc in the world, as well as having preferential trading relationships with dozens of countries through the combined leverage the EU gives us. And nothing to stop us trading with any country the EU hasn't yet got a deal with yet either.

 

You mental Brexiteers literally are prepared to throw this all away and make us the only nation in the world without a deal with literally anyone. Then you have faith in the genius Liam Fox to get us better deals than a bloc of 500 million can get! 

 

It'd be funny if it wasn't going to actually happen. How fucking thick do you need to be to swallow the ERG bullshit? CT levels of thickness.

 

P.S. you cited TTIP as a reason to leave the EU earlier in this thread. You seriously think Fox is going to get us a more preferential deal with the US, under fucking Trump, than the EU would?

 

 

 

 

 

No, I cited ttip as something the U.K. government should have the decision on.

[ewerk 30616]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Stop acting like a spoiled little tart. We live in a democracy and all our votes have a real life effect. Labour votes directly lead to millions of deaths.

 

Now have you anything to say about the 3 million extra jobs? Probably not you utter charlatan.

Go on. Tell Billy Whitehurst that his job is a necessary casualty of your greater plan.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Go on. Tell Billy Whitehurst that his job is a necessary casualty of your greater plan.

 

Apologise for the deaths you’ve caused.

[ewerk 30616]

I didn't vote for Labour at the time. And as you'll recall, I was a right wing cunt back then.

[ewerk 30616]

But I've admitted that I was wrong, will you?

[Renton 21627]

13 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

No, I cited ttip as something the U.K. government should have the decision on.

 

First, no you didn't you liar. And second, d8d you not know the UK, as part of the EU, was a key negotiator with the power of veto? As it was with all FTAs. Thick as pork mince.

 

 

[Renton 21627]

Didn't the Tories support Iraq 2? As if these moral guardians would have acted differently.

 

And I, along with most posters, was vehemently and vociferously against the Iraq war at the time. It's not possible to agree with all your party's actions or indeed even policies. 

[Billy Whitehurst 895]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

Anything to say to the man whose job is under threat?

Ha, don’t worry. If my job does move to continental Europe, then I’ll go with it.

 

It certainly wouldn’t be the end of the world. Brexit has been a real eye opener for me as I never fully appreciated how many cunts we have in this country. It would be no bad thing to have to leave.

 

People willing to sell their kids future down the river because they don’t like these pesky foreigners coming to our country, paying their taxes, and boosting our economy, even though there are no immigrants where they live. People who hang off every word that Johnson, Rees-Mogg, Farage etc even though these are the sort of wankers who happily put people like CT back in the workhouses.

 

Just look at the pricks espousing a hard Brexit. Does anyone who is not either thick as pigshit, or racist, think that they have your best interests at heart? Rees-Mogg, and his father before him, are disaster capitalists. That in itself should set alarm bells ringing, but it doesn’t as people don’t care just so long as we can tell Johnny Foreigner to get to fuck.

[Alex 35083]

Funny because I have it on good authority CT wouldn’t say boo to a goose in real life. 

[Sonatine 11387]

He'd happily eat one though

[Christmas Tree 4725]

27 minutes ago, ewerk said:

But I've admitted that I was wrong, will you?

 

Why would I want to admit I’m wrong when I believe Brexit is right

 

Honestly, I’m sure it’s tough being a chartered surveyor or whatever you are, but if you are having a bad day, feel free to have a good sweat, get it off your chest etc. 

 

One down, 17.3 million yo go. Have a good day

[Christmas Tree 4725]

On 17/06/2016 at 22:05, Christmas Tree said:

First of all I think Boris has missed his chance of ever becoming PM.

 

Secondly, by the time the UK got round to doing its own version of TTIP, Labour could be the government.

 

If we leave, then I'm pretty sure protecting the NHS, particularly via TTIP, would need to be ingrained in any party's manifesto that wanted to win.

 

Staying in the EU means we probably will have no way to prevent it happening. (If I understand it correctly).

@Renton oh look! Liar

[Christmas Tree 4725]

On 17/06/2016 at 23:25, Christmas Tree said:

It's about wine labelling and stopping geographical names like champagne, Chianti etc. The French will rightly put themselves first.

 

At least if we are out, you get the chance to vote for a party who will protect the NHS when a uk / TTIP type deal comes along. As it stands, you have no say.

 

@Renton oh look!

[Christmas Tree 4725]

On 29/06/2016 at 22:26, Christmas Tree said:

Part of the problem is you are asking me to give you the answers to a very complex organisational and negotiating plan that the best brains in the land are only beginning to grapple with.

 

Obviously I can't do that and I have no idea what basis of a plan Gove or Boris have rattling around in their heads. (None you cry).

 

As I said on Brexit day 1, what European leaders say in the first couple of months while feelings are raw, might well be different when tempers cool and their own economical and political realities kick in.

 

I can only give you my wish list / thoughts rattling in my head that made me come to my decision.

 

Would like (In no order)

 

Access to single market for trade and services

Control over immigration / borders

Free trade deals with rest of world

Sovereignty over our own laws / policies (eg Democratic accountability / vat on fuel)

Separation from an union that wants to expand further geographically and politically.

Separation from the unstable Eurozone and the problems we could get dragged into financially and due to free movement.

UK decision on TTIP

 

It's late, I may have missed some off.

 

Now you will tell me I can't have all them based on current relationships and what is currently being said by the EU. But that's for the negotiations to sort out.

 

Even if we had to have free movement of people, the other stuff would be worth it, however imo they will have to deliver something on immigration otherwise a certain section of the 52% will be unhappy.

 

The only big problem for me is the level of pain we have to endure to get there. If it's "choppy waters" that can be controlled then my vision of the end game will be worth it. If it's a disaster ours few years, then that's a heavy price to pay that wouldn't sit well with me.

 

I appreciate that if you don't think the majority of that list is a good place to be, then no choppy waters to get there would be acceptable.

 

I also bare in mind this is a left leaning board and there have been lots of comments about Tories pinching holiday time off etc. Naturally I don't see any of that happening, particularly given the bloody nose the political class have just been given.

 

Anyway, an honest view. Right or wrong, time will tell.

 

@Renton oh look! And again

 

Same old Renton, always telling porkies

[Christmas Tree 4725]

39 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

First, no you didn't you liar. 

 

 

 

 

Anytime you want to apologise

[ewerk 30616]

 Except the UK very much had a say. As Renton pointed out, the UK has a fucking VETO.

[ewerk 30616]

12 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Why would I want to admit I’m wrong when I believe Brexit is right

 

Honestly, I’m sure it’s tough being a chartered surveyor or whatever you are, but if you are having a bad day, feel free to have a good sweat, get it off your chest etc. 

 

One down, 17.3 million yo go. Have a good day

Still right in the face of all evidence to the contrary?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Still right in the face of all evidence to the contrary?

 

Yes

[ewerk 30616]

You think you're better qualified than 99% of all economists?

[Renton 21627]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Anytime you want to apologise

Oh, I'm sorry. My memory was that you opposed TTIP on the principle that it was a bad deal for the UK. Now I see that you opposed it because you wrongly thought the UK had no influence or veto! You do realise that Fox wants to negotiate TTIP on steroids?

 

Thick.

 

As.

 

Pigshit.