Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4725]

29 minutes ago, Isegrim said:

Yes, and the integrity of the single market and customs union is not only politically but also economically more important than business with the UK.

 

The whole history of the EU is about finding a model to make things happen. The EU is desperate for smooth trade to continue and will once again adjust to accommodate.

[Isegrim 9777]

3 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

The whole history of the EU is about finding a model to make things happen. The EU is desperate for smooth trade to continue and will once again adjust to accommodate.

The whole history and success of the EU is based on the four principles that are not up for negotiations. If one member would be allowed to leave to cherry pick and undermine the principles the system would collapse.

The EU is more desperate to preserve itself than making the citizens of Lala-land happy.

[Renton 21627]

46 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

It shows their red lines have changed numerous times to suit different situations. I love also how you are so adamant that their negotiating position is unmovable but ours is not. Thank god your not batting for us.

 

It really doesn't. Their red lines, the 4 freedoms, are completely unchanging, it's the entire basis of the union. They haven't shifted their position one iota during the last 19 months, and they're not going to in the next 5 weeks. Even the ERG accept this.

 

You bought into the guff that they needed us more than we needed them. BMWs and prosecco iirc. We warned you you that due to the pure assymetry of the sides, this was clearly bullshit. We are being proved right.

 

As for Canada, if this model doesn't cause significant trade frictions or a hard border in NI, why hasn't May gone for it? You know, since the EU has already offered it? Because she's not quite as tragically ill informed as you. 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

It really doesn't. Their red lines, the 4 freedoms, are completely unchanging, it's the entire basis of the union. They haven't shifted their position one iota during the last 19 months, and they're not going to in the next 5 weeks. Even the ERG accept this.

 

You bought into the guff that they needed us more than we needed them. BMWs and prosecco iirc. We warned you you that due to the pure assymetry of the sides, this was clearly bullshit. We are being proved right.

 

As for Canada, if this model doesn't cause significant trade frictions or a hard border in NI, why hasn't May gone for it? You know, since the EU has already offered it? Because she's not quite as tragically ill informed as you. 

 

They haven’t offered Canada to the U.K.

[Renton 21627]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

They haven’t offered Canada to the U.K.

 

Yes they have. Are you incapable of basic comprehension (rhetorical question)? Fuck me, it was Barnier who published the step diagram that shows Canada is what they will offer if May sticks to her red lines (that's why there is a tick against it). How don't you get this? Tusk confirmed it a couple of weeks ago ffs.

 

http://www.theweek.co.uk/96907/eu-offers-uk-canada-brexit-deal

 

So you know why they are happy to have this? Because Canada includes goods but not services, and they have a surplus in goods with us, so it's actually a better deal for them. Plus it causes friction which will move investment their side. All this is subject to the backstop of course, because Canada requires a hard Irish border (despite what you think).

 

You should be paying me for educating you btw. Are you David Davis? 

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4725]

49 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Yes they have. Are you incapable of basic comprehension (rhetorical question)? Fuck me, it was Barnier who published the step diagram that shows Canada is what they will offer if May sticks to her red lines (that's why there is a tick against it). How don't you get this? Tusk confirmed it a couple of weeks ago ffs.

 

http://www.theweek.co.uk/96907/eu-offers-uk-canada-brexit-deal

 

So you know why they are happy to have this? Because Canada includes goods but not services, and they have a surplus in goods with us, so it's actually a better deal for them. Plus it causes friction which will move investment their side. All this is subject to the backstop of course, because Canada requires a hard Irish border (despite what you think).

 

You should be paying me for educating you btw. Are you David Davis? 

 

 

 You are fucking clueless.

 

What the EU offered was Canada for GB not the UK 

 

You should be paying me.

[Renton 21627]

16 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 You are fucking clueless.

 

What the EU offered was Canada for GB not the UK 

 

You should be paying me.

 

Eh? The UK is the sovereign nation, not GB. Canada has been offered to the UK (parliament in Westminster, in case you didn't know), on condition there is an NI backstop, obviously. That's because Canada necessitates a hard border, although you deny this. 

 

So are the EU happy to give us a Canada deal, yes or no (tip, check the fucking title of the URL I gave you)? 

 

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

9 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Eh? The UK is the sovereign nation, not GB. Canada has been offered to the UK (parliament in Westminster, in case you didn't know), on condition there is an NI backstop, obviously. That's because Canada necessitates a hard border, although you deny this. 

 

So are the EU happy to give us a Canada deal, yes or no (tip, check the fucking title of the URL I gave you)? 

 

 

 

 

 Or you could just read the detail of what you are posting rather than the headline. 

 

 

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

So as I said, they’ve offered Canada to cover GB, not U.K.

[Renton 21627]

28 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

So as I said, they’ve offered Canada to cover GB, not U.K.

 

That's what I've said from the start, and why the backstop is such an issue. The EU and UK are in negotiations, not the EU and GB ffs. I'll leave it at this, you're stupider than I could ever have imagined. 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

That's what I've said from the start, and why the backstop is such an issue. The EU and UK are in negotiations, not the EU and GB ffs. I'll leave it at this, you're stupider than I could ever have imagined. 

 

 

So now you agree with me that it’s for GB and not the U.K.

 

That was hard work. Sleep well.

[Renton 21627]

8 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

So now you agree with me that it’s for GB and not the U.K.

 

That was hard work. Sleep well.

Before I sleep well, tell me more about this GB government? Amazing stuff. Oh,  and one of these   to make you feel better about yourself? Log off mate. 

[ohhh_yeah 2967]

 

The NE has 25 Japanese owned factories, which employ 13,700 people. All those jobs are gone with investment shifted into the EU.

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

7 hours ago, Renton said:

Before I sleep well, tell me more about this GB government? Amazing stuff. Oh,  and one of these   to make you feel better about yourself? Log off mate. 

 

Suggest you spend today studying geography  

[ewerk 30616]

15 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

As for the Canada option I doubt that would lead to the drama you suggest or a return to terrorism in NI. Time has moved on and I doubt the odd camera (there all over already), would make a difference. And let’s not forget that in the event of no deal, The Irish Government and the U.K. have all said that they won’t put up a hard border.

 

I asked you this last week and I’ll ask you it again, are you really arrogant enough to think that you know more about the NI political situation than me?

[Christmas Tree 4725]

29 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I asked you this last week and I’ll ask you it again, are you really arrogant enough to think that you know more about the NI political situation than me?

 

Nicely dodging my remarks.

 

I know little about you other than you once got paraded around the village in a cart and used to be a Tory. 

 

Just because you happen to live where you do doesn’t necessarily mean you have a great insight into the complexities of the Brexit situation. 

 

Rather than my dads bigger than than your dad, much better stick to the subject matter.

 

As both sides have ruled out a border, what will happen? 

 

I would suggest more trusted traders, a few more checks at factories and maybe the odd camera. 

[Renton 21627]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Suggest you spend today studying geography  

 

Tell me about this GB government the EU is negotiating with. 

[ewerk 30616]

9 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Nicely dodging my remarks.

 

I know little about you other than you once got paraded around the village in a cart and used to be a Tory. 

 

Just because you happen to live where you do doesn’t necessarily mean you have a great insight into the complexities of the Brexit situation. 

 

Rather than my dads bigger than than your dad, much better stick to the subject matter.

 

As both sides have ruled out a border, what will happen? 

 

I would suggest more trusted traders, a few more checks at factories and maybe the odd camera. 

It does give me a much better idea of the situation in Ireland. It’s my ability to comprehend complex problems that gives me a much better view of the overall negotiations than you.

Both sides have said they want a deal to avoid a hard border, the EU have made firm proposals as to how to achieve that. The U.K. have not submitted anything that is acceptable.

[Renton 21627]

2 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Nicely dodging my remarks.

 

I know little about you other than you once got paraded around the village in a cart and used to be a Tory. 

 

Just because you happen to live where you do doesn’t necessarily mean you have a great insight into the complexities of the Brexit situation. 

 

Rather than my dads bigger than than your dad, much better stick to the subject matter.

 

As both sides have ruled out a border, what will happen? 

 

I would suggest more trusted traders, a few more checks at factories and maybe the odd camera. 

 

A few more checks at factories can't happen without allowing ECJ jurisdiction. A few more cameras can't happen as they would immediately be shot down along with their installers. May has already rules out any border infrastructure. There are more than 200 road crossings between Ireland and NI, bisecting village streets and even buildings.

 

Neither of these eliminates the need for checks for illegal smuggling or fraud. Neither stops illegal immigrants. Neither changes the need for phytosanitary checks.

 

Upon leaving the EU, we will be a third country, and without a backstop there will be a hard border at WTO rules. If you want to know what this will be like, look at the other third countries the EU has a border with. Except, this could be worse. Norway is in the EEA. Switzerland has extensive bilateral deals. Turkey and Ukraine are in the CU and want to join the EU.

 

I think you need a lesson in history, geography, and economics. And a brain transplant. 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

16 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Tell me about this GB government the EU is negotiating with. 

 

Come back when they’ve offered Canada for the U.K. and not GB

[Renton 21627]

13 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Come back when they’ve offered Canada for the U.K. and not GB

 

Putting  after every post doesn't make you clever. The EU and UK are in negotiations, not the EU and GB. As we share a land border in Ireland, it's obvious NI needs to be a special economic zone and the UK will need a border in the Irish Sea, for the reasons I have stated . But May has rejected this outright, which is why we are seriously facing no deal and all that entails.

 

You're not debating now or adding anything to the discussion  you're in wum mode. I suggest we just leave this and see how this pans out. You think the EU will capitulate, I don't think they will or can. I'd bet you money on this, but frankly don't trust you. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Renton

[Christmas Tree 4725]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

.

Both sides have said they want a deal to avoid a hard border, the EU have made firm proposals as to how to achieve that. The U.K. have not submitted anything that is acceptable.

 

You don’t even seem able to comprehend the stupidity or bias of your own remarks  

 

“EU’s proposals are firm and the UK’ unacceptable”.

 

The truth is that it’s a negogiation and both sides have put forward proposals that are unacceptable to each other.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I suggest we just leave this and see how this pans out. You think the EU will capitulate, I don't think they will or can. I'd bet you money on this, but frankly don't trust you. 

 

 See you in 3 years then.

 

As it happens I don’t expect the EU to “capitulate”, I expect a deal to be agreed in the next few weeks as it’s EVERYONES interests.

 

 

[ewerk 30616]

What you don’t get is that you aren’t negotiating with another country, it’s with the EU which was built on the four pillars. They will not compromise those pillars. They are non-negotiable. It is you and the U.K. government showing your ignorance by your insistence that they must do.

Edited October 28, 2018 by ewerk

[Christmas Tree 4725]

19 minutes ago, ewerk said:

What you don’t get is that you aren’t negotiating with another country, it’s with the EU which was built on the four pillars. They will not compromise those pillars. They are non-negotiable. It is you and the U.K. government showing your ignorance by your insistence that they must do.

 

But we won’t be in the EU.

 

At essence we are arranging a free trade deal. The Irish border is the main thing making this less straightforward and it is therefor up to both sides to find a solution. (As is happening).