Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Andrew said:  His principles are disgusting, sticking to them is not to be admired.  He isnt honest at all, ffs have you seen him interviewed about Brexit and his actions to protect himself outside of politics from the repercussions?  Corbyn, please. A shite opposition leader who has done less than fuck all in his position frankly, what the fuck even are his principles? Silent during the referendum and incapable of pressing home a politcal advantage against the worst government in decades.  The reason I only said "fuck off" was because that post was nonsense man.  Yours is an emotionally charged position.  His principles are his principles, and imposing a personal moral judgement on them changes nothing about my argument. I don't admire him in any way, but those who share or have sympathy with his principles, do. Not everyone has the same set of principles ffs.  And Corbyn was successful in getting elected because he stuck to his principles and voters perceived him as being a man they could finally trust. Whether he has effectively done that as leader is irrelevant. It's a key reason he is where he is.  And whether Rees-Mogg will stick to his while in power is irrelevant, if the perception gets him over the line. And this is absolutely how he is perceived.  I can see we're heading for the same "How could this happen" as we did with Trump tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15538 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 If we're praising Rees-Mogg for his madcap religious tendencies, the Tim Farron comeback is on, baby! Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4770 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said:  Yours is an emotionally charged position.  His principles are his principles, and imposing a personal moral judgement on them changes nothing about my argument. I don't admire him in any way, but those who share or have sympathy with his principles, do. Not everyone has the same set of principles ffs.  And Corbyn was successful in getting elected because he stuck to his principles and voters perceived him as being a man they could finally trust. Whether he has effectively done that as leader is irrelevant. It's a key reason he is where he is.  And whether Rees-Mogg will stick to his while in power is irrelevant, if the perception gets him over the line. And this is absolutely how he is perceived.  I can see we're heading for the same "How could this happen" as we did with Trump tbh.   What are they then?  Corbyn has been being elected as an MP for years but he started last GE as the opposition leader and he ended it as the opposition leader, against Theresa May. And has led an opposition that has been utterly ineffective in that position on the key issue of our time.  You're right, not everyone has the same set of principles, but "this guy is definitely a self serving cunt, and I admire that" is a nonsensical position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Meenzer said: If we're praising Rees-Mogg for his madcap religious tendencies, the Tim Farron comeback is on, baby!   Well no because as far as I can recall, Tim Farron lied about his views on religion or at least kept flip flopping on the issue. That's kind of the opposite to Rees-Mogg in this context.  I'm going to start adding the following disclaimer to help people read my arguments properly:  I believe Rees-Mogg is a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 I find it amusing when people cite the 'religious principles' of people like Rees-Mogg. I.e. people like him just pick and choose whichever aspects of a religion that appeal to their beliefs and hide behind them. What's remotely 'Christian' about the vast majority of his politics? He's hardly unique in the Tory Party or politics in general in that regard though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Andrew said:   What are they then?  Corbyn has been being elected as an MP for years but he started last GE as the opposition leader and he ended it as the opposition leader, against Theresa May. And has led an opposition that has been utterly ineffective in that position on the key issue of our time.  You're right, not everyone has the same set of principles, but "this guy is definitely a self serving cunt, and I admire that" is a nonsensical position.  Who cares what they are? He's perceived as sticking to them and the abortion one is a good example of it.  All of what you said about Corbyn is true, none of it changes my point about why he was elected as leader of the party.  I didn't say I admire JRM. This was my original post:  27 minutes ago, Rayvin said: We're all united on JRM it seems, but it's worth noting that he appears to be uncompromising on his principles, relatively honest about what they are, and prepared to stand by them. Not unlike Corbyn - and popular with the right wingers for the same reason.  Another sign perhaps that if the centre could just get someone who had an actual backbone, we wouldn't be in this mess.  Where does it say I admire that? I've merely pointed out that politicians who talk honestly and don't hide from what they believe, appear to be the 'in thing'. From a strategic point of view, that's worth keeping in mind. Personally, I do believe that sticking to ones principles is important and valuable. As do you. My position on that particular consideration doesn't change based on the context of the opinion, and I don't know why it would. It would in fact just make me a hypocrite who doesn't stick to my own principles ffs.  But it doesn't mean I admire the man or what he stands for, or that he continues to stick to them. Sticking to your principles is good; not all principles are good. I think it's possible to hold both beliefs...  I believe Rees-Mogg is a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 The man intent on imposing Brexit on the entire country while simultaneously opening two funds in Dublin in order to negate/profit from the effects of Brexit doesn't seem the most principled man to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4770 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: Â Who cares what they are? He's perceived as sticking to them and the abortion one is a good example of it. Â Where does it say I admire that? I've merely pointed out that politicians who talk honestly and don't hide from what they believe, appear to be the 'in thing'. Â I do, you should to, he is potentially a PM now apparently. Â Fair enough, however your second point there that he talks honestly is horse shit. He hides behind his cherry picked religious principles whilst not giving a fuck about other, more important ones, like looking after the poor and needy. Â And he definitely doesn't on brexit, as has been proven time and again. Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: The man intent on imposing Brexit on the entire country while simultaneously opening two funds in Dublin in order to negate/profit from the effects of Brexit doesn't seem the most principled man to me.  Can we all agree that there is a difference between being principled, and appearing principled? Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4770 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: Â Can we all agree that there is a difference between being principled, and appearing principled? Is that possible? Â Does he appear principled to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Â Can we all agree that there is a difference between being principled, and appearing principled? Is that possible? You described him as being honest and sticking by his principles. I would argue that he hasn't. He can try to appear as though he is but it doesn't stand up to any sort of examination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) He appears more principled than any other Tory, to me (low bar, but still). He appears very principled to the right, which is why they are rallying around him. Â This is why he is a problem for us. Â EDIT - Actually, I forgot Ken Clarke exists. So he doesn't get the 'than any other Tory' bit. Edited July 23, 2018 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, ewerk said: You described him as being honest and sticking by his principles. I would argue that he hasn't. He can try to appear as though he is but it doesn't stand up to any sort of examination. Â I described him as 'appearing' to be. I used that exact word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: He appears more principled than any other Tory, to me (low bar, but still). He appears very principled to the right, which is why they are rallying around him. Â This is why he is a problem for us. How about the Tory Brexit rebels who are doing what they believe is right for the country rather than what is politically expedient? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15538 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  Well no because as far as I can recall, Tim Farron lied about his views on religion or at least kept flip flopping on the issue.  I KNOW  God almighty. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, ewerk said: How about the Tory Brexit rebels who are doing what they believe is right for the country rather than what is politically expedient? Â Yeah I just edited in Ken Clarke for my previous post - but for the others, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Meenzer said: Â I KNOW Â God almighty. Literally. Â Appreciated, but it was a useful contrast in the wider context of the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30620 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Just now, Rayvin said: Â Yeah I just edited in Ken Clarke for my previous post - but for the others, I don't know. I get your point. There is a complete lack of scrutiny of him by the MSM that allows him to parade around as this well spoken toff quoting Latin and restoring your great colonial past. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 5223 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, ewerk said: I get your point. There is a complete lack of scrutiny of him by the MSM that allows him to parade around as this well spoken toff quoting Latin and restoring your great colonial past. Â +1. Thanks. Â Rees-Mogg is a cunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44900 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Â Â Â Arsehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4770 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Heres some bollocks for everyone to read  https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/23/uk-public-will-blame-eu-for-no-deal-brexit-says-jeremy-hunt   Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21924 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) Â you can almost hear the maybot's circuits about to blow in the face of a question that exposes her complete lack of humanity. does not compute, does not compute ... BOOM Â Edited July 23, 2018 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15538 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 Â What is wrong with her, honestly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35095 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 A previously unthought of benefit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew 4770 Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 OK so we've all made jokes and things but...has anyone given real consideration to the fact she might not actually be human? Â The evidence is starting to build up, shes sort of like those tiny guys who pilot robot bodies in Men in Black...or the guy in the edgar suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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