Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5176]

@Christmas Tree

 

Do you agree that Brexit has torn apart any semblance of political stability and competence that this country could have once at least pretended to have? Even you must think this is an utter shambles now, on all sides.

 

We're an international laughing stock.

Edited July 17, 2018 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 21812]

Unbelievable treatment of Jo Swinson. More final acts of desperation from a government on its knee.

A vote of no confidence and another general election narrowly averted, for now, thanks to the labour rebels. They should withdraw the whip on Kate Hoey and the other traitors  

[Rayvin 5176]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

Unbelievable treatment of Jo Swinson. More final acts of desperation from a government on its knee.

A vote of no confidence and another general election narrowly averted, for now, thanks to the labour rebels. They should withdraw the whip on Kate Hoey and the other traitors  

 

Absolutely. Forget about fucking Brexit for a second, they had a gold plated opportunity to kick the Tories out of power and chose to prop them up.

 

No coming back from that.

[Renton 21287]

5 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

1, That remains to be seen. This deserves a

 

 

2. Only one threatened the electorate with a punishment budget and recession. Not this shit again. Says a lot about you that you compare Osbournes idle threats and predictions with propaganda reminiscent of the nazis.

 

3. Unproven although remain did collude with America. Which is worse?.

 

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

No. I don't think there us a mandate for a hard Brexit  though. Because despite Leave breaching rules on spending, illegally  harvesting social media data to target susceptible people, producing outright racist and demonstrably false propaganda, the margin was small. So to my mind, that is a mandate for a very soft Brexit.

 

Are you supportive of a very hard Brexit or No deal. Forgetting what that entails for the NE for a minute, have a think what type of people are agitating for this. Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davis, Hoey, Leadsome, IDS, JRM, Dorries, Baker, Patel, Raab, Lawson, and Banks. Everyone of them to a man and woman utter scum. Imagine allying yourself with them?

 

 

 

 

I've wanked over Hard Brexxxit 3 times today, I fully endorse it 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Anorthernsoul

[Renton 21287]

1 minute ago, Anorthernsoul said:

 

 

I've wanked over Hard Brexxxit 3 times today, I fully endorse it 

Lolz

[Gemmill 44360]

6 hours ago, Rayvin said:

@Christmas Tree

 

Do you agree that Brexit has torn apart any semblance of political stability and competence that this country could have once at least pretended to have? Even you must think this is an utter shambles now, on all sides.

 

We're an international laughing stock.

 

Who fucking cares what he thinks man? People need to stop bringing CT into this thread as some sort of expert witness for Leavers. He's a fucking stupid thick cunt who's sold his kids' future down the river to get bites on an internet forum. He doesn't know anything about anything, so stop asking him to comment on stuff, even if just to outline his stupidity. It makes him feel wanted/listened to.

[ewerk 30257]

8 hours ago, Anorthernsoul said:

So only the Leave campaign have been reported to police.....

 

 

Sometimes it’s best to just be quiet.

[Alex 34834]

8 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Absolutely. Forget about fucking Brexit for a second, they had a gold plated opportunity to kick the Tories out of power and chose to prop them up.

 

No coming back from that.

Agreed. Beyond the pale

[Renton 21287]

So, on reflection now things are getting very worrying. From what I can make out, the ERG amendments, backed by labour rebels, have killed the NI backstop. This now means no deal is the only plausible outcome with the EU, and we have reneged on the December and March agreements.  Whats worse is no deal means no transition either. Unless something massive happens (and i guess it could considering the insanity of current politics) we crash out by default. 

 

What's worrying me is that previous sensible political commentators who had previously always said this wouldnt happen have started to change their minds. It honestly looks like now in March we may suffer national meltdown. The public still won't be told though, such are the power of the lies by the extreme right and legacy media. 

 

I'm in the middle of buying and renovating a house (to live in, not an investment). Stressful at any time, this isn't helping. Fuckety fuck.

[ewerk 30257]

12 minutes ago, Renton said:

So, on reflection now things are getting very worrying. From what I can make out, the ERG amendments, backed by labour rebels, have killed the NI backstop. This now means no deal is the only plausible outcome with the EU, and we have reneged on the December and March agreements.  Whats worse is no deal means no transition either. Unless something massive happens (and i guess it could considering the insanity of current politics) we crash out by default.

It's basically a clusterfuck. The Patten amendment to the EU bill instructs ministers to act in a way that is compatible with the Good Friday agreement. It depends on your reading of the GFA as to whether that means no hard border in NI, it isn't stated explicitly but surely that notion underpins the agreement. If it does then the recent amendments may contradict the EU bill.

But ultimately no one has a clue what is happening or where we're going.

[ewerk 30257]

15 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Hey, I don’t disagree that there’s some shit employers and shit working practices but a hell of a lot of that stems from practices put in place under New Labour.

 

That said, today’s figures are still good news.

 

Record employment figures.

3 million extra jobs since 2010.

75% of those new jobs are full time and permanent.

70% are higher level occupations.

less than 3% are zero hour contracts.

Here's some more figures for you.

[Renton 21287]

Wow. So DexEU's own analysis estimates leaving is going to cost TWENTY times our annual EU membership. Bargain.

 

I mean, how fucking stupid do you have to be to want this, other than if you are a disaster capitalist? You'd have to have CT levels if stupidity. 

[ewerk 30257]

Project FEAR from the actual department tasked with getting us out of the EU.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

The state of British politics and politicians:

A female Tory PM using pregnancy discrimination to cheat her way into winning a vote by single digits, which if she’d lost would have led to a vote of no confidence and almost certainly her removal from office.

Labour rebels enabling the Tories while the party implodes amid yet another antisemitism own goal.

Lib Dem’s forgetting to vote for the one issue in which they’re supposed to be relevant.

While we sleepwalk towards crashing out of the EU with no deal.

What a time to be alive 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Dr Gloom

[Christmas Tree 4685]

10 hours ago, Rayvin said:

@Christmas Tree

 

Do you agree that Brexit has torn apart any semblance of political stability and competence that this country could have once at least pretended to have? Even you must think this is an utter shambles now, on all sides.

 

We're an international laughing stock.

 

Without a doubt it should have been handled so much better. We should have been a lot tougher in our negotiating stance but more importantly, Labour should have worked with the government rather than against it. 

 

Both parties voted for the refferendum, voted to trigger article 50 and stood at last years election on manifestos to leave the EU, single market and customs union.

 

Working together they could have found a middle route that sidelined the hard brexiteers, ultra remainers and DUP. Instead they have played politics every step of the way since.

 

It will probably only be finalised by them coming together at some point, just a shame it’s taken so long.

[ewerk 30257]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 We should have been a lot tougher in our negotiating stance

In which areas of negotiations should we have been tougher?

[Alex 34834]

What a simpleton

[Christmas Tree 4685]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

In which areas of negotiations should we have been tougher?

 

We shouldn’t have agreed to their sequencing which left future trade to last as Davis wanted. That way we would have been having these votes a year ago with a year still to go to leaving.

[Alex 34834]

That'll be why he was claiming we'd get a cracking deal a year ago I guess

[ewerk 30257]

Just now, Christmas Tree said:

 

We shouldn’t have agreed to their sequencing which left future trade to last as Davis wanted. That way we would have been having these votes a year ago with a year still to go to leaving.

If anything we have seen that the EU were 100% correct in their sequencing of events. We're months away from the October summit and we still aren't close to getting the withdrawal agreement settled. How on earth would things have turned out if we were trying to conduct trade talks in parallel?

[Renton 21287]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

We shouldn’t have agreed to their sequencing which left future trade to last as Davis wanted. That way we would have been having these votes a year ago with a year still to go to leaving.

Why not? It's always been made clear the divorce has to be made before the future relationship can be decided. Do you think we had some leverage? And before you say the 40 billion (which we owe), put that in context. The EU can cover tgat in QE in 1 month. And DExEU itself predicts we will lose FOUR times more than that every single year following Brexit.

 

There never was any leverage. You've been had by Mogg et al. 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Renton

[Renton 21287]

15 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

Labour should have worked with the government rather than against it. 

 

And when were Labour invited to do this?

[Gemmill 44360]

You're all doing the equivalent of bollocking a 5 year old for not understanding nuclear physics. I'm sure it's enjoyable to score easy points but the nuance of the subject matter is totally beyond his comprehension.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

9 minutes ago, ewerk said:

If anything we have seen that the EU were 100% correct in their sequencing of events. We're months away from the October summit and we still aren't close to getting the withdrawal agreement settled. How on earth would things have turned out if we were trying to conduct trade talks in parallel?

 

Because it would have brought all these arguments to a head a year earlier rather than pretending they were sorted with fudged words.