Europe --- In or Out

[Andrew 4968]

Just now, Howmanheyman said:

When I hear a conservative moaning about 'red tape' I always think they're actually moaning about businesses not being able to have an absolute free reign to do whatever they like at the expense of the greater good of people's lives. Tbf they've been chipping away at it for years bit by bit. Imagine a return to a foreman going out the factory gates to pick a couple of men out of a handful waiting for a days work in the shipyards? In 2018 change that scenario to a factory and the men sitting in the house waiting for a text from an agency and they're getting there.

 

A factory implies that we're making something.

[Meenzer 15869]

15 minutes ago, Howmanheyman said:

When I hear a conservative moaning about 'red tape' I always think they're actually moaning about businesses not being able to have an absolute free reign to do whatever they like at the expense of the greater good of people's lives.

 

Pretty much, aye.

 

 

[Howmanheyman 34436]

20 minutes ago, Andrew said:

 

A factory implies that we're making something.

We are. For now.

[ewerk 31592]

 

[ewerk 31592]

Nissan now saying that they've halted investment. 

Business isn't bluffing. They'll all be off unless the UK drops its red lines.

[Renton 22409]

47 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Nissan now saying that they've halted investment. 

Business isn't bluffing. They'll all be off unless the UK drops its red lines.

 

Aye.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-halts-investment-plans-while-it-remains-in-the-dark-over-brexit-plans-according-to-reports-1-9225210#comments-area

 

Where are you @Christmas Tree ? How many of your customers are directly or indirectly employed by Nissan?

Well done you fucking idiot.

[Christmas Tree 4920]

26 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Aye.

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/news/business/nissan-halts-investment-plans-while-it-remains-in-the-dark-over-brexit-plans-according-to-reports-1-9225210#comments-area

 

Where are you @Christmas Tree ? How many of your customers are directly or indirectly employed by Nissan?

Well done you fucking idiot.

 

More project fear.

 

All the same people making the same threats if we didn’t join the euro and if we voted to leave.

 

The economy’s growing, we have record employment, wages are rising, record investment in the NHS and England are still in the World Cup and Germany are out.

 

Stop being such a screaming fanny.

 

Just think how depressed you are going to be when the deal is done, all this “investment on hold”, pours in, trade deals are getting signed around the world and the economy is booming in the years leading upto the next election.

[Andrew 4968]

As if anyone didn't see that answer coming.

 

@Renton why do you bother? Seriously, I do not understand.

[ewerk 31592]

10 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

More project fear.

 

All the same people making the same threats if we didn’t join the euro and if we voted to leave.

 

The economy’s growing, we have record employment, wages are rising, record investment in the NHS and England are still in the World Cup and Germany are out.

 

Stop being such a screaming fanny.

 

Just think how depressed you are going to be when the deal is done, all this “investment on hold”, pours in, trade deals are getting signed around the world and the economy is booming in the years leading upto the next election.

How do you feel negotiations have gone so far?

[Renton 22409]

36 minutes ago, Andrew said:

As if anyone didn't see that answer coming.

 

@Renton why do you bother? Seriously, I do not understand.

 

Well, because this place is a bit of an echo chamber and he's just about the only brexiter you can engage with. And I'm interested in the psychology, because that's important.

 

I mean, we have a situation here where large companies are now telling us they are going to leave. What's more, they have told us why they have no option under May's red lines. And yet here we have CT, whose livelihood is presumably on the line here (although to be fair I think he is comfortably off), in complete denial. I'm curious what will it take for him to admit he's wrong. He's not alone, there are millions of gammons like CT out there. And their stubbornness is going to fuck up the UK and the NE in particular.

 

Plus, I enjoy goading him. 

[Christmas Tree 4920]

2 hours ago, Andrew said:

As if anyone didn't see that answer coming.

 

@Renton why do you bother? Seriously, I do not understand.

 

I'm guessing because dullards like you only really come in this thread to whinge and have little real understanding of politics. You should really just view this thread and learn from the big boys at work. You might learn something about the big bad world outside of Burnley.

[Christmas Tree 4920]

2 hours ago, ewerk said:

How do you feel negotiations have gone so far?

 

I think if you are not being partisan then theres a few reasons why we are where we are, mostly a weak government with no majority and a split government. Add into that the fact the EU demanded we do the negotiations in the order we did. It may have been much easier had the trade discussions got underway last year.

 

Given where May is, a remainer trying to deliver some form of Brexit with no majority and a split cabinet, I think she might be about to pull off a heroic effort. Shes kept the Hard brexiteers in line while she got the legislation through and now is about to fuck them all off at chequers and plough ahead with her soft brexit. Theres very little they can do now and they will just have to accept whatever she gives them.

[Christmas Tree 4920]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Well, because this place is a bit of an echo chamber and he's just about the only brexiter you can engage with. And I'm interested in the psychology, because that's important.

 

I mean, we have a situation here where large companies are now telling us they are going to leave. What's more, they have told us why they have no option under May's red lines. And yet here we have CT, whose livelihood is presumably on the line here (although to be fair I think he is comfortably off), in complete denial. I'm curious what will it take for him to admit he's wrong. He's not alone, there are millions of gammons like CT out there. And their stubbornness is going to fuck up the UK and the NE in particular.

 

Plus, I enjoy goading him. 

 

 

Nobody is going to leave. Nissan, BMW etc will all continue as is as there is no possibility imo of a no deal. I still think there might be a walk out or two before October before they make up agree a deal, so I do hope you have some sense and calm the fuck down or you will damage your health.

[ewerk 31592]

1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I think if you are not being partisan then theres a few reasons why we are where we are, mostly a weak government with no majority and a split government. Add into that the fact the EU demanded we do the negotiations in the order we did. It may have been much easier had the trade discussions got underway last year.

 

Given where May is, a remainer trying to deliver some form of Brexit with no majority and a split cabinet, I think she might be about to pull off a heroic effort. Shes kept the Hard brexiteers in line while she got the legislation through and now is about to fuck them all off at chequers and plough ahead with her soft brexit. Theres very little they can do now and they will just have to accept whatever she gives them.

I'm not sure about your confidence that she's about to deliver a soft Brexit. The threat from the ERG is still there, a couple of Cabinet resignations would be enough to topple her.

Just what is your definition of a soft Brexit? You're commited to leaving the SM and CU and afaia that isn't compatible with a soft Brexit.

[Andrew 4968]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

I'm guessing because dullards like you only really come in this thread to whinge and have little real understanding of politics. You should really just view this thread and learn from the big boys at work. You might learn something about the big bad world outside of Burnley.

 

I understand it well enough to know what impact brexit as is currently going is going to have on my home, my friends and family without resorting to "project fear" whenever I'm posed with a dissenting opinion, or trotting out phrases that were better when someone else coined them first (screaming fanny).

 

I also write financial service software which requires an intimate knowledge of the way that particular world works, so well in fact that I get to move to New Zealand in a couple of months to do it there instead.

 

You're a former sofa selling taxi driver who has called David Cameron "the best pm of my lifetime", Mike Ashley a football genius and thinks donald trump is doing a great job as president of the US so lets not go throwing around "dullard" all willy nilly eh? Bit team nasty for you.

[Renton 22409]

18 minutes ago, ewerk said:

I'm not sure about your confidence that she's about to deliver a soft Brexit. The threat from the ERG is still there, a couple of Cabinet resignations would be enough to topple her.

Just what is your definition of a soft Brexit? You're commited to leaving the SM and CU and afaia that isn't compatible with a soft Brexit.

 

21 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

 

Nobody is going to leave. Nissan, BMW etc will all continue as is as there is no possibility imo of a no deal. I still think there might be a walk out or two before October before they make up agree a deal, so I do hope you have some sense and calm the fuck down or you will damage your health.

 

You've consistently made two mistakes in your thinking. The first is you just don't understand what the single market (aka EEA and internal market)is or what it's for. I've tried to educate you to no avail by linking you to resources you admitted were too complicated for you. You are either in or out of the SM, you can't be half out anymore than your wife can be half pregnant. If we don't stay in, it's a guaranteed fact Nissan and the rest are off. Listen to them ffs.

 

The second mistake you've made is thinking we have leverage over the EU. We don't. They are not going go change the rules for us because WTO rules means they would have to do it for everyone. It's an existential threat that won't be entertained.

 

I told you this year's ago and the EU's uncompromising stance has has shown I'm right. Cakeism is dead. It's damage limitation now. Question for you and your fellow Brexiteers is howuch damage are you willing the UK to take in order to fulfil your fantasies. Are you willing to sacrifice Nissan? 

[adios 717]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

you can engage with

Really?

 

You'd get more sense (not to mention enjoyment) out of a rolled up Daily Mail stuck up your arse.

[Dr Gloom 22526]

i actually agree with CT for once. the UK government will fold like a deck of cards and accept whatever deal the EU offers in the end, because the prospect of falling over the cliff edge is too terrifying to contemplate. 

soft brexit here we come. wasn't it worth all the billions spent?

[Renton 22409]

10 minutes ago, adios said:

Really?

 

You'd get more sense (not to mention enjoyment) out of a rolled up Daily Mail stuck up your arse.

I do that as well tbf.

[ewerk 31592]

She can dress it up how she likes but unless we remain in a customs union we still don't get past the Irish border question.

[adios 717]

Just now, Renton said:

I do that as well tbf.

Who doesn't?

[Christmas Tree 4920]

1 hour ago, ewerk said:

I'm not sure about your confidence that she's about to deliver a soft Brexit. The threat from the ERG is still there, a couple of Cabinet resignations would be enough to topple her.

Just what is your definition of a soft Brexit? You're commited to leaving the SM and CU and afaia that isn't compatible with a soft Brexit.

 

I don’t think Boris or Davis quitting would bring down the government. Also the Erg has little it can do now the withdrawal bill is through.

 

Labour and Conservatives were both elected on leaving the SM and CU.

 

As I’ve said all along we’ll end up with pretty much full access to the SM and in some form of customs union. May will have to give on some red lines as will Brussels. Our version of the CU will allow us to still do our free trade deals and access to the SM will probably involve a fudge on Freedom of movement.

 

A no deal would be bad for both sides so won’t happen and the ERG know having legally left the EU a future government (if it wanted), could amend the deal at any time. 

[Christmas Tree 4920]

59 minutes ago, Andrew said:

Bit team nasty for you.

 

Yet you’re the one trying to stop other people talking to each other in a thread you very rarely contribute to.

 

( Not to mention I created the thread)

 

That’s a little childish don’t you think.

[ewerk 31592]

11 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

As I’ve said all along we’ll end up with pretty much full access to the SM and in some form of customs union. May will have to give on some red lines as will Brussels. Our version of the CU will allow us to still do our free trade deals and access to the SM will probably involve a fudge on Freedom of movement.

 

A no deal would be bad for both sides so won’t happen and the ERG know having legally left the EU a future government (if it wanted), could amend the deal at any time. 

Except we haven't heard a single proposal from anyone as to how we'd remain in a customs union that allows us to do our own trade deals while maintaining a near invisible border in Ireland. What is your solution to that?

The EU's analysis is that no deal would have a neglible effect on their overall economy whole being massively detrimental to ours. 

Are you not worried that there has been no tangible movement on a deal since December?

Edited June 28, 2018 by ewerk

[Christmas Tree 4920]

49 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

 

You've consistently made two mistakes in your thinking. The first is you just don't understand what the single market (aka EEA and internal market)is or what it's for. I've tried to educate you to no avail by linking you to resources you admitted were too complicated for you. You are either in or out of the SM, you can't be half out anymore than your wife can be half pregnant. If we don't stay in, it's a guaranteed fact Nissan and the rest are off. Listen to them ffs.

 

The second mistake you've made is thinking we have leverage over the EU. We don't. They are not going go change the rules for us because WTO rules means they would have to do it for everyone. It's an existential threat that won't be entertained.

 

I told you this year's ago and the EU's uncompromising stance has has shown I'm right. Cakeism is dead. It's damage limitation now. Question for you and your fellow Brexiteers is howuch damage are you willing the UK to take in order to fulfil your fantasies. Are you willing to sacrifice Nissan? 

 

Honestly, you are wrong on everything you say there. Nissan etc are interested in access to the SM and frictionless borders. That is what will be agreed and you will have wasted 2 years reading a lot of nonsense and taken a few years off your life.

 

As to your question, I’ve said several times on here that if Brexit lead to Nissan leaving it would not be worth it.