Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 30297]

The EU has shown that it isn't beholden to German car manufacturers. We will continue to buy Mercedes and Audis, just at an increased price if needed. I'm not saying that it won't lead to a drop in sales but the pound falling through the floor will probably be more to do with it than tariffs.

[ewerk 30297]

That also doesn't take into account the upside of car manufacturers moving their plants from the UK to the EU.

[Christmas Tree 4702]

21 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The EU has shown that it isn't beholden to German car manufacturers. We will continue to buy Mercedes and Audis, just at an increased price if needed. I'm not saying that it won't lead to a drop in sales but the pound falling through the floor will probably be more to do with it than tariffs.

 

The EU have said many times they want a free trade deal. What is your evidence that they have changed their mind but are keeping it secret?

[Renton 21364]

I can see the EU offering us an FTA with zero tariff on most goods. Why? Because they have a large surplus with us, 80 billion iirc. It suits them, it doesn't suit us. We'll get diddly squat on services which we have a surplus though. 

 

Other countries in EFTA make their own deals with countries around the world. Two things. They've had 40 years head start on us and in most cases their deals are much worse than the EU gets. Switzerland in particular is unhappy with a lot of its trade agreements. It literally makes no sense for us to leave the CU and I challenge CT to provide any evidence to the contrary. There just isn't any, believe me, I've looked.

 

The sovereignty issue is a myth, as I highlighted earlier with the government white paper. So that just leaves FOM as an issue. But here's the odd things, in general, it was the areas in England with very little EU immigration that voted for Brexit. Those areas with high EU immigration (and remember CT, immigrants couldn't vote in the referendum) voted staunchly remain. That strongly suggest to me it is good old English xenophobia that is the root cause. And that is because of decades of right wing propaganda which frankly has ruined this country.

 

 

[Renton 21364]

7 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

The EU have said many times they want a free trade deal. What is your evidence that they have changed their mind but are keeping it secret?

 

The issue isn't tariffs though, it's friction at borders caused by non-tariff barriers. A Canada style FTA would ruin the country, as the government's own analysis has shown. Honestly, how many times do you need this explaining to you? 

 

 

[Andrew 4720]

36 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The issue isn't tariffs though, it's friction at borders caused by non-tariff barriers. A Canada style FTA would ruin the country, as the government's own analysis has shown. Honestly, how many times do you need this explaining to you? 

 

 

 

But thats just project fear in action, it wont really happen.

 

you dont need to wait for him to respond now

[Dr Gloom 21823]

59 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

The issue isn't tariffs though, it's friction at borders caused by non-tariff barriers. A Canada style FTA would ruin the country, as the government's own analysis has shown. Honestly, how many times do you need this explaining to you? 

 

 

Typical smug remoaner. Listening to project fear’s experts

[ewerk 30297]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

The EU have said many times they want a free trade deal. What is your evidence that they have changed their mind but are keeping it secret?

 We won’t get a full free trade agreement though without accepting the four freedoms. That had been made very clear.

[Christmas Tree 4702]

2 hours ago, Renton said:

I can see the EU offering us an FTA with zero tariff on most goods. Why? Because they have a large surplus with us, 80 billion iirc. It suits them, it doesn't suit us. We'll get diddly squat on services which we have a surplus though. 

 

Other countries in EFTA make their own deals with countries around the world. Two things. They've had 40 years head start on us and in most cases their deals are much worse than the EU gets. Switzerland in particular is unhappy with a lot of its trade agreements. It literally makes no sense for us to leave the CU and I challenge CT to provide any evidence to the contrary. There just isn't any, believe me, I've looked.

 

The sovereignty issue is a myth, as I highlighted earlier with the government white paper. So that just leaves FOM as an issue. But here's the odd things, in general, it was the areas in England with very little EU immigration that voted for Brexit. Those areas with high EU immigration (and remember CT, immigrants couldn't vote in the referendum) voted staunchly remain. That strongly suggest to me it is good old English xenophobia that is the root cause. And that is because of decades of right wing propaganda which frankly has ruined this country.

 

 

 

1. We agree there’ll be free trade. Because of the FTA, there will also be a deal / divergence etc in services, mainly because it makes life easier for EU business.

 

2. Most of our current EU negotiated deals will roll over. We can then do our own deals with whoever we choose.

 

3. Sovereignty was an issue. Future governments can now do whatever they like to suit this country’s needs, whatever they may be, without having to get the EU’s approval.

 

4. People everywhere voted to leave. Most people have agreed for years, long before Brexit, that we should have an immigration policy that suits the country’s needs, not just an open door.

 

[Renton 21364]

34 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

1. We agree there’ll be free trade. Because of the FTA, there will also be a deal / divergence etc in services, mainly because it makes life easier for EU business.

Wrong. Services do not form part of most FTAs. The EU won't offer us better than CETA in this regard because of MFN clauses in it. We're set to lose passporting and with it billions in tax revenue.

 

2. Most of our current EU negotiated deals will roll over. We can then do our own deals with whoever we choose.

Wrong. The extant trade deals won't just roll over without consent of the EU AND the third country involved. The latter will all want a better deal than they have with the EU because we have much less leverage. This could take decades to sort out, to be worse off (not to mention chlorinated chickens etc).

 

3. Sovereignty was an issue. Future governments can now do whatever they like to suit this country’s needs, whatever they may be, without having to get the EU’s approval.

Wrong. The government's white paper, published post Brexit, admitted it wasn't an issue.

 

4. People everywhere voted to leave. Most people have agreed for years, long before Brexit, that we should have an immigration policy that suits the country’s needs, not just an open door.

It was open door because the government didn't implement measures open to it. You again completely failed to address my point that the problem is with perception rather than reality.

 

 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3843]

BAMFU

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact 

[Renton 21364]

Estimated 140,000 job loss according to the radio. Some of the most high tech jobs in the UK. Don't tell me CT, the head of Airbus is also engaged in this huge conspiracy you Brexitards call Project Fear? Still worth it to get that sovereignty you admit has no impact on your life?

[ewerk 30297]

It isn't about sovereignty for him. It's about increased trade. Despite the fact that in no situation will we be better off post-Brexit than we are now.

[Alex 34877]

It’s about his being an obstinate fucktard, ie he’s a typical Brexiteer 

[Renton 21364]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

It’s about his being an obstinate fucktard, ie he’s a typical Brexiteer 

 

Sadly spot on. Remember that survey where the majority of leavers were happy for own members of their family to personally lose their jobs over Brexit?

 

There's a word for these people I can't quite put my finger on. Gammons? No that's not it, begins with "c". Oh yes, CUNTS.

[Rayvin 5186]

140,000 jobs...

 

High end ones as well. Brain drain imminent?

[Gemmill 44425]

I'm staring down the barrel of a redundancy just as the NE enters post-Brexit utopia. We'll see what happens like, I've got 11 years service here so the cheque will be alright. 

[strawb 4182]

What is it you do mate?

[Renton 21364]

5 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I'm staring down the barrel of a redundancy just as the NE enters post-Brexit utopia. We'll see what happens like, I've got 11 years service here so the cheque will be alright. 

 

Good luck whatever happens. Too tied down/old/useless to emigrate? (All apply to me btw). 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3843]

I am so glad I work for an American software company right now. 

[Dr Gloom 21823]

1 hour ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

BAMFU

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/airbus-plans-uk-cuts-amid-fears-of-hard-brexit-impact 

Yeah, but, Brexit good news stories, and, er, but, er, project fear, and, but Osborne’s Brexit budget never happened, and we, look at the FTSE 100, but, yeah. 

[Meenzer 15412]

If all the companies move abroad, we can trade with them. Genius!

[Alex 34877]

30 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

I'm staring down the barrel of a redundancy just as the NE enters post-Brexit utopia. We'll see what happens like, I've got 11 years service here so the cheque will be alright. 

Sorry to hear that. I did wonder about your situation 

[ewerk 30297]

46 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

I am so glad I work for an American software company right now. 

Do you do much business with the EU or companies who do?

[ewerk 30297]

Shite news that, Gem. Another reason to hate that bearded twat.