Europe --- In or Out

[PaddockLad 17114]

3 hours ago, Rayvin said:

So presumably anyone with internet has to pay the license fee now? Funny that they've not sent me any letters since imposing this if that's true...?

 

My brothers the same. Another philistine

 

 

[ewerk 30301]

 

Unfortunately realism is in short supply around Westminster at the moment.

[Dr Gloom 21823]

Evan Davies currently grilling a Daniel Hannen, Tory MEP, for the Tory’s “shambolic” Brexit negotiations on news night . 

That bbc government bias exposed yet again 

[ewerk 30301]

So Rees Mogg comes on The Marr Show still peddling his lie about Article 24 and it goes entirely unchallenged. This myth was debunked last week and yet Marr was entirely unprepared for it.

[ewerk 30301]

Marr: ‘As you may have spotted I’m not an expert on this’.

Just as well that having a working knowledge on the biggest political problem facing the nation is generations isn’t a requirement for the host of the BBC’s flagship political programme.

[Rayvin 5186]

Maybe its all part of the Govian dystopian nightmare. No experts, etc.

[ewerk 30301]

I think the Peston format is much better in that during and after the interview there is always an opposing voice on the sidelines to challenge what the interviewee is saying.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ewerk

[Renton 21364]

9 hours ago, ewerk said:

Marr: ‘As you may have spotted I’m not an expert on this’.

Just as well that having a working knowledge on the biggest political problem facing the nation is generations isn’t a requirement for the host of the BBC’s flagship political programme.

 

Didn't see it but well believe it. At best, the BBC have shown a complete dereliction of duty. At worst, it's purposeful. 

 

@Dr Gloom doesn't care, he thinks neutrality means both sides are allowed to lie equally, even when only one side does it. CT meanwhile believes pointing out obvious truths is a sign of mental illness. 

[Dr Gloom 21823]

27 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Didn't see it but well believe it. At best, the BBC have shown a complete dereliction of duty. At worst, it's purposeful. 

 

@Dr Gloom doesn't care, he thinks neutrality means both sides are allowed to lie equally, even when only one side does it. CT meanwhile believes pointing out obvious truths is a sign of mental illness. 

I’ll just refer you to Friday’s newsnight. Probably still on iPlayer. 

[Alex 34878]

On 27/05/2018 at 09:25, ewerk said:

So Rees Mogg comes on The Marr Show still peddling his lie about Article 24 and it goes entirely unchallenged. This myth was debunked last week and yet Marr was entirely unprepared for it.

I hadn’t to turn it off. That’s exactly what we’ve been on about with regard to the BBC

[Alex 34878]

16 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

I’ll just refer you to Friday’s newsnight. Probably still on iPlayer. 

What’s Newsnight’s viewing figures? Half a million on average and probably less on the Friday night version. What’s the point in grilling someone on there if JRM is then able to go something like Andrew Marr with about 4 or 5 times as many people watching on a Sunday morning and basically spout off about his impossible vision for Brexit without being pulled up on it? Most people watching Newsnight are going to be reasonably clued up anyway. 

Edited May 28, 2018 by Alex

[Rayvin 5186]

It's starting to look a little grim for the EU in Italy it has to be said...

 

The populists command over 50% of the vote but are split between two parties. Another election in Autumn.

 

How much longer can the EU ignore concerns about austerity and immigration, i wonder. It either has to take them apart head on, or acquiesce.

[ewerk 30301]

Are the austerity and immigration issues in Italy the EU's fault?

[Rayvin 5186]

I think there might be a serious contention that austerity is, but immigration is likely more their own problem from sea based arrivals.

 

Either way, its not like the facts matter to these people - which is why, as i say, the EU has to resist the narrative or just concede the point. Narratives > Truth.

[ewerk 30301]

Austerity is more a result of the fact that their debt to GDP is second only to Greece in the EU. The EU has come to a sensible agreement with them and in a way saved them from themselves, though, as you say, that point doesn't particularly sell well to the electorate.

[Rayvin 5186]

Perhaps another case of the country's rich scapegoating the EU then. Either way, it's not the people the populists are speaking to who are responsible for the shafting of their country.

 

I do think the EU needs to form a response to these challenges because it just looks entirely unchallenged outside of perhaps academia and high brow press - but that's really just preaching to the choir.

[Rayvin 5186]

Disclaimer - I didn't just wake up today and decide to have a dig at the EU. I remain as committed to it as ever.

 

Just read this article in the Guardian however - it's about Romanians being the second largest non-British nationality in the country. I don't care about that whatsoever, but the article also focuses on the damage this is doing to Romania itself. 3.6m Romanians (probably most of their intelligent young people) are living and working outside of their country, with only 20m remaining.

 

That's actually a big proportion IMO. Is there an argument that while the EU has improved the lot of the individual Romanians by giving them access to better paid work and ensuring their children will grow up citizens of more prosperous countries, it has also thrown their homelands under the bus? This is actually an argument that the right seems to come up with against immigration a lot, and it's interesting to see the Guardian giving it credence.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/30/romanians-uk-tragedy-homeland-corruption-poverty

Edited May 30, 2018 by Rayvin

[ewerk 30301]

4 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Disclaimer - I didn't just wake up today and decide to have a dig at the EU. I remain as committed to it as ever.

 

Just read this article in the Guardian however - it's about Romanians being the second largest non-British nationality in the country. I don't care about that whatsoever, but the article also focuses on the damage this is doing to Romania itself. 3.6m Romanians (probably most of their intelligent young people) are living and working outside of their country, with only 20m remaining.

 

That's actually a big proportion IMO. Is there an argument that while the EU has improved the lot of the individual Romanians by giving them access to better paid work and ensuring their children will grow up citizens of more prosperous countries, it has also thrown their homelands under the bus? This is actually an argument that the right seems to come up with against immigration a lot, and it's interesting to see the Guardian giving it credence.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/30/romanians-uk-tragedy-homeland-corruption-poverty

Ireland was losing its best and brightest for decades but managed to build (and subsequently crash and rebuild) their economy.

[Rayvin 5186]

1 minute ago, ewerk said:

Ireland was losing its best and brightest for decades but managed to build (and subsequently crash and rebuild) their economy.

 

It does, tbf to the EU, reference the fact that the Romanian government has wasted many of the financial subsidies provided to them by the EU in order to expedite their development. I guess Ireland was far more responsible and put such subsidies to considerably better use?

 

Other than that, how did Ireland manage what it achieved?

[ewerk 30301]

It's exactly what Ireland did. They benefited massively from EU money and used it to build sustainable infrastructure on which to build their economy.

[Rayvin 5186]

In which case, as ever, the blame lies on the home front. Presumably we will see an anti-EU backlash in Romania in a generation's time. 

 

The EU really needs much better PR.

[ewerk 30301]

https://www.westmonster.com/mogg-no-need-for-hard-border-in-northern-ireland/

I was 99% sure he knew he was peddling lies until I read the bit where he doesn't actually know what the capital of Switzerland is. So maybe he's just incompetent rather than dishonest?

[Meenzer 15412]

Also this means he wants us to join the Schengen area now. That seems quite radical.

[ewerk 30301]

Also, I've been through the Swiss/French border many times and I don't recall it being invisible.

[Christmas Tree 4703]

It’s ok, David has MaxFac2 on the go according to morning papers.