Europe --- In or Out

[Dr Gloom 21923]

The alternative is censorship, which is more harmful. Critics say the media shouldn’t give the likes of Bannon a platform, I say it’s our responsibility to report what he says and scrutinise and criticise. Win the intellectual debate, don’t try to silence voices we find offensive.

[ewerk 30610]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

 Win the intellectual debate, don’t try to silence voices we find offensive.

How has that been going so far?

[ewerk 30610]

 

Hopefully she learnt a lot from the massive frictionless border in the background of her photo.

[Andrew 4748]

43 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

The alternative is censorship, which is more harmful. Critics say the media shouldn’t give the likes of Bannon a platform, I say it’s our responsibility to report what he says and scrutinise and criticise. Win the intellectual debate, don’t try to silence voices we find offensive.

 

No one actually cares about that though at the end of the day that doesn't produce results or get "yours" into power.

 

Tomi Lahren got some drinks chucked at her when she was out and about the other day, I am all for this.

[Gemmill 44880]

Renton's got a little pengelly.

[Renton 21625]

Under our current set up, "free media" really means free propaganda for right wing nom dom ideologues and the mouthpiece of the government, the BBC. Or revenue making click bait which adds nothing 

 

I don't know enough about it to offer any solutions. But suffice it to say, the average person is exposed to continuos lies turning them into gammons.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

Tories and brexiteers alike loathe the beeb, Renton 

[Alex 35082]

Aye but one side has a go at them when they report something factual while the other is concerned about the lack of scrutiny and the blatant ignoring of information which is pertinent to the debate 

[Dr Gloom 21923]

So on the one hand the bbc is accused of liberal bias, on the other of being a government mouthpiece. 

I think they get it right more often than not, it’s a great British institution worth fighting  to preserve. Talk about government mouthpieces - it’s hardly Fox News.

We have it pretty good here relative to other countries as far as legacy media goes: BBC and channel 4 news for impartial news analysis - even Sky News provides balance and is hardly what you’d call Fox, given the proprietor.

The guardian, indie, FT, times and Torygraph. Whatever you think of their editorial slants, all report news accurately. 

[Alex 35082]

It’s become a joke and your parroting cliches only serves to back that up

[Renton 21625]

1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said:

So on the one hand the bbc is accused of liberal bias, on the other of being a government mouthpiece. 

I think they get it right more often than not, it’s a great British institution worth fighting  to preserve. Talk about government mouthpieces - it’s hardly Fox News.

We have it pretty good here relative to other countries as far as legacy media goes: BBC and channel 4 news for impartial news analysis - even Sky News provides balance and is hardly what you’d call Fox, given the proprietor.

The guardian, indie, FT, times and Torygraph. Whatever you think of their editorial slants, all report news accurately. 

 

It's better than the US so it's okay? No it fucking isn't. If you can't see how the myriad of issues with Brexit have been completely ignored by the BBC then fair enough, everybody else can.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

Just now, Renton said:

 

It's better than the US so it's okay? No it fucking isn't. If you can't see how the myriad of issues with Brexit have been completely ignored by the BBC then fair enough, everybody else can.

I said they didn’t always get it right. I don’t think that means they can be accused of being the government’s mouthpiece, sorry,

[Dr Gloom 21923]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

It’s become a joke and your parroting cliches only serves to back that up

So you agree the beeb is a government mouthpiece? Do me a favour man. 

[Rayvin 5223]

As I've tried to say before, I don't think it's what the BBC says that makes it a tool for the government so much as what it doesn't say.

 

And I'm very prepared to file "proper scrutiny of Brexit" under the category of lying by omission.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

Broadcast regulation in this country don’t allow it for starters.

Like most of you, I voted for remain, but I don’t see any bias on the bbc in favour of the government’s (and Labour’s) hard Brexit position. I see them grilling politicians on both sides of the debate, as they always do.

renton, what are the myriad issues the bbc is choosing to ignore you speak of?

[Renton 21625]

During the referendum, Leave repeatedly lied about a myriad of things which weren't challenged by the BBC or other broadcasters, and it's got much worse now. Fair enough, if your definition of unbiased is merely to give each side 50% representation and not challenge blatant provable lies, it's not biased. But as Rayvin says, I agree it's lying by omission. 

 

I still value the BBC for its other programmes BTW, but the decline in its news service is obvious. That, plus it's fawning over the royal family, makes the news unwatchable to me. 

[ewerk 30610]

And yet 45% of leavers think that the BBC is anti-Brexit.

Then again they're all thick as pig shit.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

3 minutes ago, Renton said:

During the referendum, Leave repeatedly lied about a myriad of things which weren't challenged by the BBC or other broadcasters, and it's got much worse now. Fair enough, if your definition of unbiased is merely to give each side 50% representation and not challenge blatant provable lies, it's not biased. But as Rayvin says, I agree it's lying by omission. 

 

I still value the BBC for its other programmes BTW, but the decline in its news service is obvious. That, plus it's fawning over the royal family, makes the news unwatchable to me. 

this, to me, is the most offensive thing it has served up recently. 

i made the mistake of putting the bbc news on before the cup final on saturday and was served up a 15 minute bulletin devoted entirely to the royal wedding - the news in the rest of the world was put on hold for a day. pathetic. 

[ewerk 30610]

Of course it was a big deal to a huge number of people in the country. It was always going to be that way, I don't think you can knock them too much for it.

And tbf there wasn't much else going on that day.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

During the referendum, Leave repeatedly lied about a myriad of things which weren't challenged by the BBC or other broadcasters, and it's got much worse now. Fair enough, if your definition of unbiased is merely to give each side 50% representation and not challenge blatant provable lies, it's not biased. But as Rayvin says, I agree it's lying by omission. 

 

I still value the BBC for its other programmes BTW, but the decline in its news service is obvious. That, plus it's fawning over the royal family, makes the news unwatchable to me. 

unbiased news gathering means reporting the news without editorial comment. unbiased analysis means grilling both sides of the debate equally. the bbc are the uk's standard bearer for impartial news reporting. it's a fucking brilliant institution - imagine if RT was your main source of broadcast news ffs.

i seem to remember the daily mail being up in arm when the bbc called out johnson's lies about the 350m a week.  

[Alex 35082]

23 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

So you agree the beeb is a government mouthpiece? Do me a favour man. 

Never said that. This is the sort of manipulation of the facts that I’m talking about 

[Dr Gloom 21923]

21 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

As I've tried to say before, I don't think it's what the BBC says that makes it a tool for the government so much as what it doesn't say.

 

And I'm very prepared to file "proper scrutiny of Brexit" under the category of lying by omission.

so the beeb is biased in favour of this government - do you really believe that? 

[Dr Gloom 21923]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Never said that. This is the sort of manipulation of the facts that I’m talking about 

i'm defending the bbc against renton's accusation of government bias. you stuck your oar in so i presumed you agreed, hence the request for clarification.

no fake news here move along

[Rayvin 5223]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

so the beeb is biased in favour of this government - do you really believe that? 

 

I believe that they take a pro-British view, and endorse views that they think will be in the best interests of supporting British policy wins. At this point, it presumably means not shooting holes through Brexit.

 

The moment they haul a senior government minister in front of the country and resolutely sit there forcing them to answer some of the basic questions about things like 'how we get past the GFA' or 'why is the country £900 per household worse off' or 'how come the Americans are raping us in this trade deal' (and forcing them to answer these without accepting bullshit and fudging) is the moment they can return to impartiality on this issue.

 

But they're not going to do so because ultimately, it will harm the ongoing negotiations for this insanity with the EU - or at least that is what they will have been told by the government.

[Dr Gloom 21923]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I believe that they take a pro-British view, and endorse views that they think will be in the best interests of supporting British policy wins. At this point, it presumably means not shooting holes through Brexit.

 

The moment they haul a senior government minister in front of the country and resolutely sit there forcing them to answer some of the basic questions about things like 'how we get past the GFA' or 'why is the country £900 per household worse off' or 'how come the Americans are raping us in this trade deal' (and forcing them to answer these without accepting bullshit and fudging) is the moment they can return to impartiality on this issue.

 

But they're not going to do so because ultimately, it will harm the ongoing negotiations for this insanity with the EU - or at least that is what they will have been told by the government.

 

utter bollocks, sorry i presumed you watched newsnight because what you accuse the bbc of failing to do is exactly what that show does every night of the week.