Europe --- In or Out

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:21, ewerk said:

 So you're one of those.

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The vast majority are "one of those".

 

Without democracy you get despotism, autocracy, authoritarianism, totalitarianism. Ultimately you get fascism. My grandparents grew up in a fascist nation and neither had any positive stories to pass down.

[Alex 37678]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:30, SpaceCadet said:

 

The vast majority are "one of those".

 

Without democracy you get despotism, autocracy, authoritarianism, totalitarianism. Ultimately you get fascism. My grandparents grew up in a fascist nation and neither had any positive stories to pass down.

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Aye, we’ve had all those things in Western Europe since the EU began rather than beforehand 

[ewerk 34043]

Ah yes, that damned ECHR forcing us into a facist state.

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:33, Alex said:

Aye, we’ve had all those things in Western Europe since the EU began rather than beforehand 

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History has a habit of repeating itself.

[ewerk 34043]

So tell me, just how does withdrawing from the ECHR (which isn't guaranteed to happen post-Brexit btw) help us from falling into a facist state?

[Meenzer 16765]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:12, TheGingerQuiff said:

 

Who wants to trade with them? We can make a deal with the Seychelles now

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Can we sell our sea shells on their sea shore?

[Alex 37678]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:35, SpaceCadet said:

History has a habit of repeating itself.

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[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:24, Rayvin said:

 

straight into the EU thread.

 

 

@SpaceCadet Its worth making clear tbh that hardly anyone on here voted out. No one will make a big issue of it generally but you're going to be standing alone in here on this. Well you'll have CT but thats actually worse than nothing.

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I'm more than comfortable with contrary opinions. We're all individuals and I'm happy to respect that.

[adios 717]

Hasn't history shown that lone countries are much more susceptible to fascism than the EU?  It's one of the reasons the EU was created.

 

What exactly is the path to fascism under the current European system?

Edited April 18, 2018 by adios

[adios 717]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:38, SpaceCadet said:

 

I'm more than comfortable with contrary opinions. We're all individuals and I'm happy to respect that.

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Unless we're foreign.   

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:38, adios said:

Hasn't history shown that lone countries are much more susceptible to fascism that the EU?  It's one of the reasons the EU was created.

 

What exactly is the path to fascism under the current European system?

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I'd be much happier confronting potential problems on a national level than on a continental or global level.

[adios 717]

But how is the EU structure prone to a fascist takeover?

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:39, adios said:

Unless we're foreign.   

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I'm a second generation immigrant 

[Rayvin 6428]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:40, SpaceCadet said:

 

I'd be much happier confronting potential problems on a national level than on a continental or global level.

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Really? British people strike me as particular susceptible to being sleep walked into fascism given our predilection for just accepting the reality of things and not actually taking any action to bring about change from the ground up.

[adios 717]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:41, SpaceCadet said:

 

I'm a second generation immigrant 

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GET OUT!

Edited April 18, 2018 by adios

[NJS 4702]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:21, SpaceCadet said:

 

Nah, the United Kingdom is well and fine with me. 

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That's the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. 

 

Do you see a problem there? 

[ewerk 34043]

Maybe you missed my previous two posts but do you want to have a crack at the ECHR question? I'm intrigued as to how withdrawing from an international agreement that protects our rights and liberties tallies with not wanting to become a facist state. You realise that any facist government could easily revoke any British bill of human rights.

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:41, adios said:

But how is the EU structure prone to a fascist takeover?

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The EU is more powerful now than it was ten years ago and will be more powerful than it is now in ten years time unless Brexit proves a catalyst for independence across Europe that is.

[Rayvin 6428]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:43, SpaceCadet said:

The EU is more powerful now than it was ten years ago and will be more powerful than it is now in ten years time unless Brexit proves a catalyst for independence across Europe that is.

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Would you accept a reformed EU that elected officials and had greater accountability?

[ewerk 34043]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:43, SpaceCadet said:

The EU is more powerful now than it was ten years ago and will be more powerful than it is now in ten years time unless Brexit proves a catalyst for independence across Europe that is.

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How does the EU have more power over the UK now than it did ten years ago? If you're going to make a statement like that then you need to back it up with evidence.

Edited April 18, 2018 by ewerk

[adios 717]

There's a lot of sweeping generalisations here that need to become specific arguments. 

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:43, ewerk said:

Maybe you missed my previous two posts but do you want to have a crack at the ECHR question? I'm intrigued as to how withdrawing from an international agreement that protects our rights and liberties tallies with not wanting to become a facist state. You realise that any facist government could easily revoke any British bill of human rights.

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A fascist government could and would easily revoke a human rights bill at any level. Which is why government should always be limited and always be decentralised. 

[Rayvin 6428]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:47, SpaceCadet said:

A fascist government could and would easily revoke a human rights bill at any level. Which is why government should always be limited and always be decentralised. 

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Separate question - where would you place yourself on the political spectrum?

[SpaceCadet 5]

  On 18/04/2018 at 16:44, ewerk said:

How does the EU have more power over the UK now than it did ten years ago? If you're going to make a statement like that then you need to back it up with evidence.

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You misunderstood

 

The EU has more power now in general 

 

 

[Meenzer 16765]