Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4685]

Just now, ewerk said:

Ok, well I'm saying the answer is no. We'll find out soon enough which of us is correct.

 

So what do you think Barnier and Davis will be doing for the next 12 months  

[ewerk 30253]

They'll not be doing much together until the UK agrees to the legal text. Failure to do that will see us crash out of the EU in 12 months time.

Edited March 7, 2018 by ewerk

[Renton 21286]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

They'll not be doing much together until the UK agrees to the legal text. Failure to do that will see us crash out of the EU in 12 months time.

Still my interpretation too. We'll see CT. If I'm wrong I will admit it, as I'm sure you will when our cracking deal cuts regional  growth by 11%.

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

CTs stance on this worse than when he called Steve McClaren "the real deal"? Find out at 11

[Dr Gloom 21812]

The real deal

up there with football genius, business as usual and best pm of his lifetime 

[Alex 34827]

Tbf, he thought it was Steve McQueen

[Renton 21286]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

For fucks sake and you call me thick.

 

This is what Barnier said last week.  The WITHDRAWAL TREATY would make the phase 1 backstop operational / legal.

 

Now no more weaselling. Say those words..... You were right Christmas Tree. I am the thick one.

 

Barnier said the EU’s draft withdrawal treaty would make that backstop “operational” but that he was prepared to consider proposals by the U.K. if and when it makes any. He said the draft treaty would also contain the EU positions “on other withdrawal related issues, subjects on which since December there has not been any progress and, in many cases, on which there have been no negotiations.”

 

 

Did you read the article this text came from CT? It's even entitled "Brexit legal text signals greater EU urgency". And the first few lines say:

 

"Brussels is not waiting around anymore for the U.K. to get its act together on Brexit.

 

The European Commission’s publication on Wednesday of a 120-page draft withdrawal treaty will signal a new approach in the Brexit process that might best be compared to an airliner evacuation: White lights lead to red lights, which indicate the way out".

 

Nowhere does it support your view that I can see, quite the contrary in fact. Do you have anything that actually supports your view?

[Sonatine 11307]

 

[ewerk 30253]

[Christmas Tree 4685]

3 hours ago, Renton said:

Did you read the article this text came from CT? It's even entitled "Brexit legal text signals greater EU urgency". And the first few lines say:

 

"Brussels is not waiting around anymore for the U.K. to get its act together on Brexit.

 

The European Commission’s publication on Wednesday of a 120-page draft withdrawal treaty will signal a new approach in the Brexit process that might best be compared to an airliner evacuation: White lights lead to red lights, which indicate the way out".

 

Nowhere does it support your view that I can see, quite the contrary in fact. Do you have anything that actually supports your view?

 

Just Barnier Tusk May and the whole EU.

 

 

[Christmas Tree 4685]

6 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

“Push on” ie finalise!!!!!

 

The very same phrase he used in January. I explained this to you then, several times.

 

Tell you what. Why don’t you find one quote from Tusk, or anyone that says the EU want us to sign this legal text before the withdrawal treaty in October (at the earliest).

 

Feel free to answer this when you can. I’ve given you words from Barnier confirming it will be in the Withdrawal agreement. Nothing to back up your claims.

[Renton 21286]

1 hour ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

Feel free to answer this when you can. I’ve given you words from Barnier confirming it will be in the Withdrawal agreement. Nothing to back up your claims.

 

The withdrawal "agreement" is currently the 120 page draft document published last week. It sets the parameters of phase one including the fall back position in NI if the deal collapses. It's being agreed by the EU on the 22nd and 23rd of this month, and will be passed back to the UK government for comment or possible amendment. It may be tweaked (e.g. DUP yesterday) but it is clear the EU will not make substantive changes.

 

If it is not signed off by UK government,  there will be no discussion of transition let alone future trade deals, which have been confirmed today will be shit anyway.

 

My claims are verified by the very article you quoted from, which was from last week. Plenty of further information on the Politico site if you care to read it. 

 

You still think we will get a cracking deal? 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Renton

[Renton 21286]

Quote

The European Council’s draft guidelines for negotiating the U.K.’s future relationship with the EU after Brexit are expected to include a provision insisting that the talks hinge on continued progress on the formal withdrawal treaty, according to two EU diplomats.

The expected provision is an attempt by the EU to confront a new Brexit conundrum: how to prevent the U.K. from stalling on crucial aspects of the divorce agreement, when its only remedy seems to be cutting off talks on a future relationship, which would only slow the whole process further.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/council-brexit-guidelines-to-prevent-uk-backsliding-on-withdrawal-deal/

 

 

 

[Renton 21286]

And finally, you can download the actual draft withdrawal agreement here if you want to read documents first hand instead of reading the Mail's account of it.

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/council-brexit-guidelines-to-prevent-uk-backsliding-on-withdrawal-deal/

 

Unlike the UK, the EU have been remarkably transparent, consistent, and logical in their approach to Brexit.  They have us bare arsed over a barrel, as predicted by nearly everyone on this board except you. One day the penny will drop even to you that this government has completely fucked up. 

Edited March 7, 2018 by Renton

[Ayatollah Hermione 13794]

On 10/06/2015 at 20:06, Christmas Tree said:

Fucking naysayers. This is the final piece of the jigsaw. It's all good. Upwards and onwards.

 

Get aboard the positive train. (Yes its pub night )

 

But ffs, this is the real deal.

 

If this man can come up with such maddening shite about the beacon of incompetence that is Steve McClaren, his stance on the Tory government's ability to navigate this cataclysm while their own party is imploding is surely worth replying to. Constantly.

[Alex 34827]

16 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

The real deal

up there with football genius, business as usual and best pm of his lifetime 

Just remembered another corker: Dennis Wise deserves a chance (as manager)

[Alex 34827]

8 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

 

If this man can come up with such maddening shite about the beacon of incompetence that is Steve McClaren, his stance on the Tory government's ability to navigate this cataclysm while their own party is imploding is surely worth replying to. Constantly.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

8 hours ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

 

If this man can come up with such maddening shite about the beacon of incompetence that is Steve McClaren, his stance on the Tory government's ability to navigate this cataclysm while their own party is imploding is surely worth replying to. Constantly.

Renton isn’t just replying to CT - he’s persistently trying to lay bait for him which, unless it’s a duck pizza, garnished with cherry tomatoes, is a massive waste of time. 

I think deep down CT knows he’s ill-informed but he’s made up his mind and no amount of evidence or reasoned argument is ever going to change it - that would mean admitting he got it wrong.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

11 hours ago, Renton said:

 

The withdrawal "agreement" is currently the 120 page draft document published last week. It sets the parameters of phase one including the fall back position in NI if the deal collapses. It's being agreed by the EU on the 22nd and 23rd of this month, and will be passed back to the UK government for comment or possible amendment. It may be tweaked (e.g. DUP yesterday) but it is clear the EU will not make substantive changes.

 

If it is not signed off by UK government,  there will be no discussion of transition let alone future trade deals, which have been confirmed today will be shit anyway.

 

My claims are verified by the very article you quoted from, which was from last week. Plenty of further information on the Politico site if you care to read it. 

 

You still think we will get a cracking deal? 

 

I honestly give up  The withdrawal agreement containing the legal text on Ireland will not go through until October at the earliest. Before then we will have agreed the transition and agreed the framework for the future deal.

 

Nothing agreed til everything agreed. 

 

I’ll await your humble pie eating in October.

[ewerk 30253]

The problem is that you still believe that we can proceed with talks while the UK disputes the content of the legal text. We can't. That will become clear shortly.

[Dr Gloom 21812]

Stop trying to confuse me with facts, I’ve made up my mind.

[Renton 21286]

13 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Renton isn’t just replying to CT - he’s persistently trying to lay bait for him which, unless it’s a duck pizza, garnished with cherry tomatoes, is a massive waste of time. 

I think deep down CT knows he’s ill-informed but he’s made up his mind and no amount of evidence or reasoned argument is ever going to change it - that would mean admitting he got it wrong.

As I've said, I'm using CT as a catalyst to do my own primary research as the MSM, especially the BBC, are doing such a shit job. I've learnt a lot about how the EU works and it's philosophy as a result.

 

But you're right about CT and the problem is he's representative of most leavers, as I think Alex alluded to yesterday. They'll never admit they were wrong and because of confirmation bias will just double down on their beliefs. This is why a second referendum is incredibly risky.

 

But aye, I've had it with CT now, he must be on a wind up. 

[Rayvin 5176]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

As I've said, I'm using CT as a catalyst to do my own primary research as the MSM, especially the BBC, are doing such a shit job. I've learnt a lot about how the EU works and it's philosophy as a result.

 

But you're right about CT and the problem is he's representative of most leavers, as I think Alex alluded to yesterday. They'll never admit they were wrong and because of confirmation bias will just double down on their beliefs. This is why a second referendum is incredibly risky.

 

But aye, I've had it with CT now, he must be on a wind up. 

 

Gloom isn't going to stand for that comment mind

 

You're right of course - interrogating problems outside of the established media offering is the only way to be properly informed these days.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

22 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Renton isn’t just replying to CT - he’s persistently trying to lay bait for him which, unless it’s a duck pizza, garnished with cherry tomatoes, is a massive waste of time. 

I think deep down CT knows he’s ill-informed but he’s made up his mind and no amount of evidence or reasoned argument is ever going to change it - that would mean admitting he got it wrong.

 

Oh really

 

C’mon then, off the fence.

 

Barnier and May have stated clearly that the Irish legal text will be in the withdrawal agreement that will not be signed til October at the earliest. Renton and Ewerk think I’m wrong.

 

Do you think I’m wrong?

 

Ive got plenty of humble pie to round

 

Maybe ask a friend before committing.

[Christmas Tree 4685]

7 minutes ago, ewerk said:

The problem is that you still believe that we can proceed with talks while the UK disputes the content of the legal text. We can't. That will become clear shortly.

 

And you think Barnier and Davis have a year off