ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 There must be a certain point though, before we fall off the cliff, that someone in a position of power either resigns or says, 'this just isn't going to work'. We've seen plenty of cabinet members pretend to be leavers in order to respect the vote but surely one of them has to eventually point out that the will of the people isn't the same as the interests of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Renton said: Well, the shit is about to hit the fan now. Oh and CT, the EU confirmed today that there will be no trade negotiations until the UK legally signs up to its commitments in phase one. No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just now, Christmas Tree said: No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? Six times, it would appear. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17079 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 The other night, I put this to the most enthusiastic and long standing brexiteer of my aquaintance: Four people get in a car in Dublin, post Brexit. They drive north across a still invisible frictionless border with ANR. What nationality are they? Needless to say, there was silence. Until he uttered: ' that doesn't concern us, the politicians will work out the details for us" This cunt has been to see farage talk, had his picture taken with him. 49, lives in a village in rural Dorset, lives with his elderly parents whilst he pays off the credit card debt he ran up travelling in the 90s. There are no words for my utter contempt for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: Six times, it would appear. Im doing one for each member state Damn IPhone. Edited March 7, 2018 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21286 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: No they didn’t How many times do I have to explain this same point to you? The only time phase 1 will enter into legal text is as part of the withdrawal agreement in October. By then, a good chunk of the future trading agreement will have been discussed. “Nothing agreed til everything’s agreed” as the EU stated AGAIN today. As for the future trade deal itself, today is just Tusk laying out his opening gambit. It now has to go to the 27 member states who will each have their own priorities with regard to negotiations such as Belgium desperate for full financial services to be included. Tusk will then present a final draft which will only be their opening negotiations stance. A negogiation will then take place. As has always been the case, they want zero tariff trade, our divorce money, ongoing money, our fishing waters etc etc. A deal will be done. Tusk today. Quote The guidelines further warn that Brussels will not push on with negotiations on trade until May signs up to a legal text that translates all the commitments made by the UK government in the first phase of negotiations, including on avoiding a hard border on the island of Ireland. Is that not clear. And yes, we will get a deal akin to Canada. Canada, a country on a different continent. In the government's own analysis, that was only marginally better than falling out altogether. The reason isn't because of tariffs on goods, which will hugely suit the EU as net exporters if abolished. It's to do with other things. Non tariff barriers and access to services. This is what will devastate our economy. If you knew anything at all, you should be extremely worried about the path your leader has led us to. Edited March 7, 2018 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, Renton said: Tusk today. Is that not clear. And yes, we will get a deal akin to Canada. Canada, a country on a different continent. In the government's own analysis, that was only marginally better than falling out altogether. The reason isn't because of tariffs on goods, which will hugely suit the EU as net exporters if abolished. It's with DWP other things. Non tariff barriers and access to services. This is what will devastate our economy. Of you knew anything at all, you should be extremely worried about the path your leader has led us to. “Push on” ie finalise!!!!! The very same phrase he used in January. I explained this to you then, several times. Tell you what. Why don’t you find one quote from Tusk, or anyone that says the EU want us to sign this legal text before the withdrawal treaty in October (at the earliest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Let's just wait and see. You clearly want to ignore all evidence that doesn't suit your POV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Of course you'll also ignore this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 10 minutes ago, ewerk said: Let's just wait and see. You clearly want to ignore all evidence that doesn't suit your POV. We don’t need to wait and see. They’ve never said it! Im right, you both know I’m right hence you both weaselling out. Suck it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21286 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 14 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said: “Push on” ie finalise!!!!! The very same phrase he used in January. I explained this to you then, several times. Tell you what. Why don’t you find one quote from Tusk, or anyone that says the EU want us to sign this legal text before the withdrawal treaty in October (at the earliest). Push on doesn't mean finalise in any language. In this context it means commence, clearly. But tell you what, why don't YOU find a reputable citation which says these legal documents won't be signed for another 6 months? I've looked and can't find it. Barnier has made it clear there needs to be a legal fall back position for NI should talks fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Renton said: Push on doesn't mean finalise in any language. In this context it means commence, clearly. But tell you what, why don't YOU find a reputable citation which says these legal documents won't be signed for another 6 months? I've looked and can't find it. Barnier has made it clear there needs to be a legal fall back position for NI should talks fail. Oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21286 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Christmas Tree said: We don’t need to wait and see. They’ve never said it! Im right, you both know I’m right hence you both weaselling out. Suck it up I'm not weasling out. I think May will sign this month or else we crash out of any deal or transition and become international pariahs for not sticking to our word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21286 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just now, Christmas Tree said: Oh dear Eh? Give me a link tubs, if you can. I can't link to information that doesn't exist, can I? Onus is on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34828 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 55 minutes ago, ewerk said: There must be a certain point though, before we fall off the cliff, that someone in a position of power either resigns or says, 'this just isn't going to work'. We've seen plenty of cabinet members pretend to be leavers in order to respect the vote but surely one of them has to eventually point out that the will of the people isn't the same as the interests of the people. I think would require the sort of scruples which would have prevented them from serving in this government in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Renton said: Eh? Give me a link tubs, if you can. I can't link to information that doesn't exist, can I? Onus is on you. For fucks sake and you call me thick. This is what Barnier said last week. The WITHDRAWAL TREATY would make the phase 1 backstop operational / legal. Now no more weaselling. Say those words..... You were right Christmas Tree. I am the thick one. Barnier said the EU’s draft withdrawal treaty would make that backstop “operational” but that he was prepared to consider proposals by the U.K. if and when it makes any. He said the draft treaty would also contain the EU positions “on other withdrawal related issues, subjects on which since December there has not been any progress and, in many cases, on which there have been no negotiations.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 34828 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 50 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: The other night, I put this to the most enthusiastic and long standing brexiteer of my aquaintance: Four people get in a car in Dublin, post Brexit. They drive north across a still invisible frictionless border with ANR. What nationality are they? Needless to say, there was silence. Until he uttered: ' that doesn't concern us, the politicians will work out the details for us" This cunt has been to see farage talk, had his picture taken with him. 49, lives in a village in rural Dorset, lives with his elderly parents whilst he pays off the credit card debt he ran up travelling in the 90s. There are no words for my utter contempt for him. Probably outstripped by the contempt he has for himself though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Okay, let's make this easy. CT, are you saying that we can progress to trade talks while the UK still disputes the legal text published by the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4685 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ewerk said: Okay, let's make this easy. CT, are you saying that we can progress to trade talks while the UK still disputes the legal text published by the EU? FFS Yes. Thats why Tusk is issuing his draft trade talk position today. Talks can not be completed until after March 2019, but the basic framework for the deal will be agreed and some sort of legal commitment to that framework will also be in the withdrawal agreement. No deal, no money. Did you think they were all just going to take a year off Edited March 7, 2018 by Christmas Tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30255 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Just now, Christmas Tree said: FFS Yes. Ok, well I'm saying the answer is no. We'll find out soon enough which of us is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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