Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 30610]

Not really much point unless you’re going to move there? Are they going to issue EU passports alongside our patriotic blue ones?

[Andrew 4748]

27 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

Everyone born in NI will retain EU citizenship according to Varadkar. 

 

Fingers crossed for a child/grandchild rule there eventually then.

[Rayvin 5223]

4 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

This was always going to happen because of the GFA. Its possible British citizens will be able buy EU citizenship going forward, which I will certainly do. 

 

I'd be happy to work on the basis of some kind of opt-in tax system. The only problem then is that theoretically, the entire country could 'opt in', meaning we get freedom of movement for Brits without conceding the same to EU citizens in the UK.

[Renton 21623]

4 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Not really much point unless you’re going to move there? Are they going to issue EU passports alongside our patriotic blue ones?

Matter of principle and for healthcare abroad I guess. 

[ewerk 30610]

I assume that emergency healthcare will still be provided on a reciprocal basis?

[Alex 35079]

3 hours ago, Christmas Tree said:

Interesting to note as well how much Junker / Tusk etc have bent over backwards to try and get this deal done this week. I think this shows how keen they are to get onto Phase 2 and get a deal done.

 

All bodes well for a cracking deal.

I have little doubt that £50b for a deal a bit like the one we currently have only without any influence going forward will be spun that way anyway. It'll no doubt be lapped up as well

[Alex 35079]

45 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

FFS.

 

They may as well fucking roll that out to everyone then, given that the Tories said it will be 'exactly the same, everywhere'. What is the actual fucking point of any of this now?

If they had any vision or actual sense of public duty there'd be a 2nd referendum announced where 'the people' can decide. It should have two options - stick with what we have or take a similar deal that's not quite as good but will cost c. £50b. Those are the only two choices. What we'll probably end up with is the latter being foisted upon us as they try to cling to power. Literally no fucker voted for that

[Rayvin 5223]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

If they had any vision or actual sense of public duty there'd be a 2nd referendum announced where 'the people' can decide. It should have two options - stick with what we have or take a similar deal that's not quite as good but will cost c. £50b. Those are the only two choices. What we'll probably end up with is the latter being foisted upon us as they try to cling to power. Literally no fucker voted for that

 

Aye this is it. Electoral suicide for the Tories though, they need to spin it in their favour now so that it looks like they're delivering something useful.

[ewerk 30610]

 

[Alex 35079]

Eh? Isn't that what they've just agreed not to do?

[Rayvin 5223]

I fucking loathe Boris Johnson.

[ewerk 30610]

It's how you 'sell' it.

[Park Life 71]

19 minutes ago, Alex said:

I have little doubt that £50b for a deal a bit like the one we currently have only without any influence going forward will be spun that way anyway. It'll no doubt be lapped up as well

The main thing is to avoid future EU madness ie the army, the hamonised taxation and a regulatory framework from hell. And having to bail half the continent out in a few years....We will have to comply with the trade stuff which is reasonable.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Park Life

[ewerk 30610]

And freedom of movement?

[Renton 21623]

5 minutes ago, Park Life said:

The main thing is to avoid future EU madness ie the army, the hamonised taxation and a regulatory framework from hell. And having to bail half the continent out in a few years....We will have to comply with the trade stuff which is reasonable.

 

Cameron already had an opt out of ever closer union. Why don't people know this elementary stuff? Why are we paying 50 billion to achieve a worse deal than we already have?

 

Quote

It is recognised that the United Kingdom, in the light of the specific situation it has under the Treaties, is not committed to further political integration into the European Union. The substance of this will be incorporated into the Treaties at the time of their next revision in accordance with the relevant provisions of the Treaties and the respective constitutional requirements of the Member States, so as to make it clear that the references to ever closer union do not apply to the United Kingdom

 

[Christmas Tree 4725]

I think some people are getting a bit carried away with chapter 49 which is basically a fudge clause to get us to Phase 2.

 

Sounds like full on Brexit is still ongoing. Trade deal, no free movement, FTS’s around the world etc.

[ewerk 30610]

Clueless.

[ewerk 30610]

Educate yourself.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-this-could-be-the-begining-of-the-end-for-brexit-1.3320096?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Alex 35079]

3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Clueless.

[Park Life 71]

5 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

Cameron already had an opt out of ever closer union. Why don't people know this elementary stuff? Why are we paying 50 billion to achieve a worse deal than we already have?

 

 

It wasn't formalised in any document mate just a verbal agreement. It was never added to any legislation...They said they would add it later but never did. In fact it was never voted on by the council which is required to make it binding.

[Renton 21623]

4 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

I think some people are getting a bit carried away with chapter 49 which is basically a fudge clause to get us to Phase 2.

 

Sounds like full on Brexit is still ongoing. Trade deal, no free movement, FTS’s around the world etc.

For the umpteenth time of asking, how isbthat compatible with no border with Ireland.

 

Also, in all honesty, what makes you optimistic we can achieve better trade deals outside of the EU? 

[Park Life 71]

6 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

I think some people are getting a bit carried away with chapter 49 which is basically a fudge clause to get us to Phase 2.

 

Sounds like full on Brexit is still ongoing. Trade deal, no free movement, FTS’s around the world etc.

It won't be full Brexit.

[Renton 21623]

Just now, Park Life said:

It wasn't formalised in any document mate just a verbal agreement. It was never added to any legislation...They said they would add it later but never did. In fact it was never voted on by the council which is required to make it binding.

 

It was written down, I've just quoted it. And we had a veto. Tell me then, why was Brexit necessary? 

[Alex 35079]

5 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Educate yourself.

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-this-could-be-the-begining-of-the-end-for-brexit-1.3320096?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

And I already loved the Irish to start with. The proper ones, not you and Ant

[Park Life 71]

10 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

It was written down, I've just quoted it. And we had a veto. Tell me then, why was Brexit necessary? 

It was only a 'commitment'. The EU are already reducing veto powers as we speak. I've kept an eye on it. Ever closer union means that we would have at some point to give up influence or accept more integration....It's how they do it.

 

“This is a democracy. Once the frame is agreed, we will start the legislative process. This is not a veto.” 

The president’s statement means that Britain may not get the deal agreed by Mr Cameron if it ultimately votes to stay in the EU.

Mr Schulz, from the parliament’s centre-left Socialist grouping, however pledged that MEPs would be “constructive”, “fair”, and bring clarity to the deal.

The warning is a blow for Mr Cameron, who had explicitly earlier this month that the EU deal would be legally binding.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Park Life