Ayatollah Hermione 14963 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 He’ll be downgrading that spare room full of shit in about 18 month Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33863 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:13, Christmas Tree said: I think this is all a bit of a storm in a tea cup. On the one hand I feel that it’s not in the UK’s interest to reveal commercially sensitive information about certain sectors. Why give the people across the table any extra help. But secondly, most business sectors probably have a better handle on how it may effect them than the government. IE; the very many public reports on the financial sector. Expand The EU will probably have better analysis on how Brexit will affect our economy than Davis will. The problem is he is withholding this information from parliamentary scrutiny, not just from MPs generally but from the select committee set up with the purpose of scrutinising his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5254 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:05, Alex said: The deal Turkey have isn't what the UK would want (or need), it's shit compared to the deal we already have and their economy bears little resemblance to ours, so the 'bespokey' deal we want is nothing like the one currently Turkey have. I realise you'd probably have countered with "That's why it's bespokey", thinking that provides some insight into anything other than your lack of intellect, so I've saved you the bother there. Expand The only reason Turkey is referenced is to highlight the EU’s willingness to adapt the customs union. All we are after is an adaption that suits us. Im genuinely surprised that reasonably bright people are struggling with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 11388 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:07, Alex said: Humpty Dumpty has now downgraded his 'cracking deal' more times than the government has had to downgrade their predicted growth figures. Expand The hypocrisy of it all, the left are told to wake up and join the real world, yet the right have some delusion that it doesn't matter about the recent financial collapse, it'll all come out in the wash. As long as we punish the poor and lay off the rich. Or that the bunch of chinless, jowly, trust fund fucks who're "in charge" will somehow broker a good deal. That when the dust settles and we've left the EU trade will blossom with the EU, and China and the US, who will be lining up to get into bed with a country who just asked the x-factor voting public to dictate complex foreign policy. There's no necessity to follow through on Brexit yet, is there? The referendum was just "What do you lot think we should do?" and when some of the country replied "We should cripple ourselves for decades because... brown people", the sensible statesmen and women should have said "Well, thanks for the input we'll take that under advisement and get back to you in a bit." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33863 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 10:16, Christmas Tree said: The only reason Turkey is referenced is to highlight the EU’s willingness to adapt the customs union. All we are after is an adaption that suits us. Im genuinely surprised that reasonably bright people are struggling with this. Expand When the brightest people in the room are struggling with it then maybe it isn't as simple as you think. Edited November 28, 2017 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 37590 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:16, Christmas Tree said: The only reason Turkey is referenced is to highlight the EU’s willingness to adapt the customs union. All we are after is an adaption that suits us. Im genuinely surprised that reasonably bright people are struggling with this. Expand The fact the comparison isn't remotely apt is my point though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5254 Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:20, Alex said: The fact the comparison isn't remotely apt is my point though Expand It couldn’t be any more apt. The EU adapted the rules of the customs union with regard to Turkey. They will adapt again to suit the UK and solve the Irish border issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 37590 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) Actually, fuck this shit. What am I doing? Edited November 28, 2017 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 24319 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 10:16, Christmas Tree said: The only reason Turkey is referenced is to highlight the EU’s willingness to adapt the customs union. All we are after is an adaption that suits us. Im genuinely surprised that reasonably bright people are struggling with this. Expand No, you're the one that is struggling. The raison d'etre of any customs UNION is to jointly negotiate and adhere to FTAs with third countries. Thus if we are in the CU we can't do our own FTAs and are subject to Supranational bodies (the ECJ). This is why it is a red line for May. Now, given you said that Brexit wasn't about chasing out the immigrants, but was about us setting up our own FTAs with "booming" economies, how does it make sense for us to be in a customs union, and by that I mean any customs union in any form? Edited November 28, 2017 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6311 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 There is simply no robust economic argument for leaving the EU when considered at a national level. There may be individuals who benefit, like Zerosum, but that's it. There is a political reason for leaving it - people want change, no matter how gallingly stupid that change might be. There is a social reason for leaving it - if you believe immigrants are inherently bad people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:16, Christmas Tree said: The only reason Turkey is referenced is to highlight the EU’s willingness to adapt the customs union. All we are after is an adaption that suits us. Im genuinely surprised that reasonably bright people are struggling with this. Expand Remanicas innit. Frothing skirt lifting queens on meth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 10:51, Rayvin said: There is simply no robust economic argument for leaving the EU when considered at a national level. There may be individuals who benefit, like Zerosum, but that's it. There is a political reason for leaving it - people want change, no matter how gallingly stupid that change might be. There is a social reason for leaving it - if you believe immigrants are inherently bad people. Expand EU is the slowest growing trade area on the planet with a huge Southern Europe banking crisis to come. We don't want and EU army in the future or taxes set in Brussels for the benefit of Germany. We don't have the infrastructure to accommodate endless immigration from Eastern Europe. Edited November 28, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6311 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 10:55, Park Life said: EU is the slowest growing trade area on the planet. We don't want and EU army in the future or taxes set in Brussels for the benefit of Germany. We don't have the infrastructure to accommodate endless immigration from Eastern Europe. Expand You may not want a federalised EU, but I do. Yes to the army, yes to taxes going to Brussels. Adapt and evolve, only way to remain at the top table in the modern world. The alternative is to become a second rate power. Or third rate tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 10:57, Rayvin said: You may not want a federalised EU, but I do. Yes to the army, yes to taxes going to Brussels. Adapt and evolve, only way to remain at the top table in the modern world. The alternative is to become a second rate power. Or third rate tbh. Expand In and ever changing financial mural riddled with jeopardy I'd rather we had the choice of controlling our own currency and taxes. The EU has been very slow to react to the economic winds and I doubt has the political will to make big changes anyway. It is doomed. It would be less doomed with us in it and it accepting our common sense with reg to regulation and so on... Edited November 28, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6311 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:00, Park Life said: In and ever changing financial mural riddled with jeopardy I'd rather we had the choice of controlling our own currency and taxes. The EU has been very slow to react to the economic winds and I doubt has the political will to make big changes anyway. It is doomed. Expand Disagree, but respect your opinion. I think the EU is the last best hope of Western civilisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 11:01, Rayvin said: Disagree, but respect your opinion. I think the EU is the last best hope of Western civilisation. Expand Lordy lord. The top heavy soviet style bureaucracy is as bad is it gets. Let's put it this way it's as bad as China. Edited November 28, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6311 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Feel free to point out an alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 24319 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:00, Park Life said: In and ever changing financial mural riddled with jeopardy I'd rather we had the choice of controlling our own currency and taxes. The EU has been very slow to react to the economic winds and I doubt has the political will to make big changes anyway. It is doomed. Expand We've always had the sovereignty to control our own taxes, currency and defence, you massive shit stirrer. I agree with Rayvin in aspiration but accept it's not a democratic view. However, Cameron won the right for the UK to opr out of closer union, so none of this was ever a real issue. Also EU27 is growing well now, its us that are lagging. Disingenuous at best to compare the EUs growth w8th developing nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:04, Rayvin said: Feel free to point out an alternative. Expand That's easy the original idea of the EU was the best. Common trading and co-operation agreements without the political red tape and the flawed common currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 37590 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Parky just goes against perceived wisdom for a laugh, man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 6311 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:07, Park Life said: That's easy the original idea of the EU was the best. Common trading and co-operation agreements without the political red tape and the flawed common currency. Expand Sorry I meant an existing state in the Western world that represents a better leader for Western civilisation than the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 11:05, Renton said: We've always had the sovereignty to control our own taxes, currency and defence, you massive shit stirrer. I agree with Rayvin in aspiration but accept it's not a democratic view. However, Cameron won the right for the UK to opr out of closer union, so none of this was ever a real issue. Also EU27 is growing well now, its us that are lagging. Disingenuous at best to compare the EUs growth w8th developing nations. Expand Ever closer union (its in their policy papers) means a future with centralized tax, compulsory joining of the euro and a new EU army. This is all political hegemony and will have little or no benefit to European peoples. In saying that I'd much rather stay in the EU if it showed signs of contrition and common sense. But it won't because political pygmies from Luxembourg and Poland are drunk with their new found power. Edited November 28, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) On 28/11/2017 at 11:08, Rayvin said: Sorry I meant an existing state in the Western world that represents a better leader for Western civilisation than the EU. Expand As a socialist I'm vehemently against Globalization or any form of Supra-state. I am for fraternal co-operation with all and don't believe in a trading bloc that is punishing Africa and India. Get your head out of your arse. http://www.tuaeu.co.uk/how-the-eu-starves-africa/ Edited November 28, 2017 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 33863 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:08, Park Life said: Ever closer union (its in their policy papers) means a future with centralized tax, compulsory joining of the euro and a new EU army. Expand And we wouldn't have had a veto over any of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 11:18, ewerk said: And we wouldn't have had a veto over any of that? Expand Catch 22 innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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