Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 30645]

38 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

They actually did

 

No they didn't.

 

“We hope for pragmatism from all parties in the Brexit negotiations; that means no new barriers to trade, free movement for skilled workers. We are planning in terms of scenarios. You know that we make Mini models at VDL Nedcar in the Netherlands. We're flexible."

[Renton 21640]

38 minutes ago, Christmas Tree said:

 

They actually did

Did what?

 

The large German manufacturers have repeatedly stated they will not be used as leverage in any trade deals and their priority is the protection of the single market. 

 

Tariffs and non tariff barriers will hurt the EU but will cripple us. Over 40% of our exports go to the EU compared with 8% the other way. Plus, when we Brexit we will automatically lose 40 odd bilateral deals with third countries. Fox has admitted we don't have the capacity to make new ones and I don't think most countries will be that arsed about such a small market anyway. 

[Christmas Tree 4729]

27 minutes ago, ewerk said:

 

No they didn't.

 

“We hope for pragmatism from all parties in the Brexit negotiations; that means no new barriers to trade, free movement for skilled workers. We are planning in terms of scenarios. You know that we make Mini models at VDL Nedcar in the Netherlands. We're flexible."

 

 never mind you trying to guess what he means, he actually said...

 

Speaking to Bloomberg, he said: “We will see what happens, I mean we hope that there is a trade agreement, definitely, between the EU and the UK.

“That there’s pragmatism on both sides, otherwise both sides would lose.

 

He's right.

[ewerk 30645]

He said he hopes there's a deal, we all do. But if there isn't then they'll switch production to another country. There'll be a bit of upheaval for them in the short term but it's preferable to dealing with trade barriers. So yet again the EU are holding all the cards.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

I note CT dodged the Northern Ireland border question. I can't imagine his answer to that issue would be particular interesting either but I'm sure he's equally confident in our negotiators securing a cracking solution to that cluster fuck too.

[Alex 35100]

Funny to see someone who advocated leaving the EU hoping nothing really changes. 

[Alex 35100]

Not so funny to see him taking more or less ripping the piss out of someone who's worried about the repercussions for the export firm they work for. Standard though

Edited September 11, 2017 by Alex

[Ayatollah Hermione 13886]

He'll not be laughing when he has to pay through the arse for imported tat to go with whatever stupid fucking hobby he's picked up this week. 

[Alex 35100]

And, to be fair, I don't think he's nasty (or clever) enough to do it on purpose.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

oh dear, jezza

 

 

[Rayvin 5223]

I don't get it, what's confusing about that. He's basically backing single market access and I assume knows that the only way this can be achieved is by implementing the associated rules. The fact that he's given himself an 'out' in terms of an unfeasible trade agreement is no different to what the Tories are saying about trade deals iyam.

 

I think Labour are doing a 'softly softly' u turn on it.

[Dr Gloom 21959]

he doesn't seem to know that is is possible to remain in the single market post brexit, like the norwegians. 

 

either that, or he's playing dumb but doesn't want to annoy the hard brexiteers. 

 

 

[Dr Gloom 21959]

Corbyn suggesting we could stay in single market wasn't what he meant - "no change in position" says spokesman

 

sigh

[Renton 21640]

Came across this document, published just prior to referendum, but missed by me and probably 99% of the population I suspect. Worth reading the executive summary if you want to depress yourself. Why the fuck wasn't this advertised more widely at the time, or was it just dismissed as "project fear"?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf

[Rayvin 5223]

@Dr Gloom I wouldn't worry about it, Labour are coming around on this issue. They just need to muddy the waters enough until the Tories drop a bollock big enough to cause serious reservations amongst people. They need the right narrative to flip over, basically. I think they want to flip though.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5223]

2 minutes ago, Renton said:

Came across this document, published just prior to referendum, but missed by me and probably 99% of the population I suspect. Worth reading the executive summary if you want to depress yourself. Why the fuck wasn't this advertised more widely at the time, or was it just dismissed as "project fear"?

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/517415/treasury_analysis_economic_impact_of_eu_membership_web.pdf

 

I never saw that. Absolutely fucking criminal that such things weren't broadly publicised. £4-5k per annum worse off, per household.

 

Fuck!

[Meenzer 15552]

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes, yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.”

[Renton 21640]

7 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I never saw that. Absolutely fucking criminal that such things weren't broadly publicised. £4-5k per annum worse off, per household.

 

Fuck!

 

Price worth paying apparently. Cheers CT for robbing my family you kernt. 

 

Has there ever been an act of national self harm on this scale? 

[Renton 21640]

1 minute ago, Meenzer said:

“But the plans were on display…”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”
“Yes, yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.”

 

 

Exactly.

[PaddockLad 17286]

Dennis Skinner voted with the Tories last night, and cited our glorious leader (SD's main distribution warehouse is in Skinners constituency) as part of the reason...

 

It’s about workers being exploited. All that nonsense Mike Ashley does of dragging people about for a pittance is enabled by the EU.

It’s not about where people come from. I worked with Poles down the pit, Lithuanians too. Displaced people. But they got the same wages as me, – and they were all members of the NUM [National Union of Mineworkers] – and that’s how it should be, not disadvantaging working people by undercutting wages and conditions.

There was no argument at Shirebrook when I started work there at the end of World War II and the ‘displaced persons’ were getting work. Nobody cared tuppence where they came from – nobody went down that pit unless they were members of the union, not until Thatcher.

In fact the son of one of those Lithuanians ended up as president of Whitwell NUM. When they were going to close the pit after the 84/85 strike he climbed up the head stock. I climbed up and they thought I was going to talk him down – but I just took him some food. His name was Terry Butkeraitis – he set up Clause IV and used to work on behalf of unions doing political work so they couldn’t be sequestrated.

 

 

 

I understand and support that point of view, but I don't think Brexit will change things the way Skinner wants them to change. 

 

 

 

 

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/09/12/exclusive-dennis-skinner-on-his-euw-vote/

[ewerk 30645]

Are workers underpaid?

[PaddockLad 17286]

There's a theory that unlimited unskilled labour from the EU has kept wages low for native Brits. Anecdotally I think there's something in it, but not sure about the overall effect nationwide. 

[Renton 21640]

1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

There's a theory that unlimited unskilled labour from the EU has kept wages low for native Brits. Anecdotally I think there's something in it, but not sure about the overall effect nationwide. 

But pretty much debunked by every study going....

 

It's a domestic issue. We could raise and enforce the minimum wage for instance. Or regulate immigration more effectively for that matter. What does Skinner think will happen to wages post Brexit the stupid old fucker? 

[ewerk 30645]

If we're talking about the Sports Direct warehouse then we're talking about unskilled manual work. If it weren't for EU immigration then would it even be in Shirebrook? Is there enough local workers for it to function?

[Rayvin 5223]

I was under the impression that mid level skilled immigrants had made a dent in earnings (plumbers, builders, etc). Makes sense as a supply and demand issue as well. The more workers there are, the less you pay.

 

In fact I'd be interested to see evidence that it hasn't as I thought this was the only point that could legitimately be made in favour of Brexit.

 

That said, our expectations have changed now, and I strongly doubt that low skilled British people will want the same jobs that their EU equivalents were doing. Moreover we'll lose more jobs in the long run if we're not able to come up with a rather stunning trade agreement.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Rayvin