Europe --- In or Out

[ewerk 31221]

The EU hasn't stopped it. The desire hasn't been there to stop it. Now it very clearly is. Not a chance the Tory party will fight the next general election without immigration in our own hands.

 

The people have spoken.

 

 

But the greatest PM of our time said, “We would like to see net immigration in the tens of thousands rather than the hundreds of thousands. I don’t think that’s unrealistic." So surely there was desire there?

Edited September 6, 2016 by ewerk

[Rayvin 5304]

I think it's just all part of the sea change going on where the average worker feels a bit short changed from a country's overall success. Whether that's to do with nursing, zero hour contracts, low wages etc.

 

I'm not suggesting you can go from one to the other overnight, but you have to start addressing the problems.

 

I think there's been little desire there from any party previously, but now I think we are at the start of it.

 

I'm not saying it's easy either as any government only has so much money to go around. But as we are seeing with the living wage and what's happened at Sports Direct, it's a lot easier to start with the private sector.

 

Viva le revolution

 

 

That sounds like something I might say ffs. Hard to argue with the premise there but I question why this couldn't all have been achieved without leaving the EU? Many of us have been saying things like this for as long as I've been on this forum. You're in effect saying that the people, in voting to leave, demanded that the government sit up and listen. I think that could well be considered a success, if we manage to hold the government to the aim of actually improving people's lives.

 

However, if you and many other 'right wingers' who share your concerns had just thrown your lot in with us 'left wingers' who have been talking about improving these things for years, and brought your pragmatism to combine with our idealism (I'm being generous there ) we could have avoided all of this. Because as you and I both know, from what you're saying anyway, leaving the EU is a symbolic act for the people fighting back - not a practical step in doing so.

 

Effectively what seems to be coming across to me, is that the EU was the first excuse to come up which made it acceptable for the right wing to make ordinary people's lives and rights a focal point without looking like left wingers.

[Park Life 71]

That graph is nonsense. EU migration when you inc all the services they access costs the UK 3m a day.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/22/temporary-migrants-nhs-cost-study

Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life

[Gemmill 46086]

"The people have spoken." The people are irrelevant. Whatever Brexit ends up being will be in the best interests of corporates and the EU, not the dimwitted and misguided tits that voted for it.

 

And no matter how many times Dracula's mam says "Brexit means Brexit", what she'll actually deliver is what her corporate paymasters want set against what the EU lets her get away with.

 

And companies like cheap labour and the EU likes Britain as an immigration outlet. The idea that the immigration tap is just gonna get turned off is a nonsense.

[Christmas Tree 4850]

 

I'm just trying to understand his thinking, really.

Not my thinking. The nursing profession has been crying out for more home trained nurses for years.

 

Personally I think making it a degree profession has caused a lot of problems as well.

 

Basically we should have some separate way of funding the NHS and sort the mess out properly.

[ewerk 31221]

That graph is nonsense. EU migration when you inc all the services they access costs the UK 3m a day.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/16/immigration-from-europe-cost-the-british-taxpayer-3m-a-day-last/

 

Me don't think you understands the graph.

[Rayvin 5304]

Not my thinking. The nursing profession has been crying out for more home trained nurses for years.

 

Personally I think making it a degree profession has caused a lot of problems as well.

 

Basically we should have some separate way of funding the NHS and sort the mess out properly.

 

You mean privatisation?

[ewerk 31221]

But if you want to go down that route.

 

[ewerk 31221]

Not my thinking. The nursing profession has been crying out for more home trained nurses for years.

 

Personally I think making it a degree profession has caused a lot of problems as well.

 

Basically we should have some separate way of funding the NHS and sort the mess out properly.

 

You are an ass-hat. An idiotic ass-hat.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3982]

It's to do with overall immigration numbers you miserable horror of a man.

 

I think you'll find you turd of a human being that the EU has no say what so ever over non EU migration. Fucking arsewipe.

[Christmas Tree 4850]

But the greatest PM of our time said, “We would like to see net immigration in the tens of thousands rather than the hundreds of thousands. I don’t think that’s unrealistic." So surely there was desire there?

Proofs in the pudding..... And if there's one thing I'm an expert on.

[Rayvin 5304]

"The people have spoken." The people are irrelevant. Whatever Brexit ends up being will be in the best interests of corporates and the EU, not the dimwitted and misguided tits that voted for it.

 

And no matter how many times Dracula's mam says "Brexit means Brexit", what she'll actually deliver is what her corporate paymasters want set against what the EU lets her get away with.

 

And companies like cheap labour and the EU likes Britain as an immigration outlet. The idea that the immigration tap is just gonna get turned off is a nonsense.

 

Basically, this. 'Dracula's Mam' being the highlight of the post, though

[Park Life 71]

Me don't think you understands the graph.

You can put all the graphs in the world up...But the pressure on services, housing, and healthcare are unsustainable. Southern England has jumped from 13th to 2nd in population density only behind Holland now. We can't take in 300,000 or whatever people a year we just don't have the land, housing or finances to cope with it.

[Christmas Tree 4850]

 

That sounds like something I might say ffs. Hard to argue with the premise there but I question why this couldn't all have been achieved without leaving the EU? Many of us have been saying things like this for as long as I've been on this forum. You're in effect saying that the people, in voting to leave, demanded that the government sit up and listen. I think that could well be considered a success, if we manage to hold the government to the aim of actually improving people's lives.

 

However, if you and many other 'right wingers' who share your concerns had just thrown your lot in with us 'left wingers' who have been talking about improving these things for years, and brought your pragmatism to combine with our idealism (I'm being generous there ) we could have avoided all of this. Because as you and I both know, from what you're saying anyway, leaving the EU is a symbolic act for the people fighting back - not a practical step in doing so.

 

Effectively what seems to be coming across to me, is that the EU was the first excuse to come up which made it acceptable for the right wing to make ordinary people's lives and rights a focal point without looking like left wingers.

Na, the EU's shit mate. We're well out. One day they'll have marches where us Brexiteers are honoured.

[Rayvin 5304]

 

Fair enough.

[Gemmill 46086]

I should have added that whatever she delivers will be spun so wonderfully by the Tory owned media that CT will lap it up as exactly what Britain needs. Whether it matches exactly what he thinks Brexit should mean today, or whether it is diametrically opposed to what he thinks it should mean.

[ewerk 31221]

Proofs in the pudding..... And if there's one thing I'm an expert on.

 

Are you saying that he lied?

[Christmas Tree 4850]

You mean privatisation?

No, a separate tax or something that is specifically for the NHS. Should be a cross party thing set in stone.

[ewerk 31221]

You can put all the graphs in the world up...But the pressure on services, housing, and healthcare are unsustainable. Southern England has jumped from 13th to 2nd in population density only behind Holland now. We can't take in 300,000 or whatever people a year we just don't have the land, housing or finances to cope with it.

 

Have you been to the countryside? There's loads of fucking space not used. There's room for literally hundreds of houses.

[Park Life 71]

"The people have spoken." The people are irrelevant. Whatever Brexit ends up being will be in the best interests of corporates and the EU, not the dimwitted and misguided tits that voted for it.

 

And no matter how many times Dracula's mam says "Brexit means Brexit", what she'll actually deliver is what her corporate paymasters want set against what the EU lets her get away with.

 

And companies like cheap labour and the EU likes Britain as an immigration outlet. The idea that the immigration tap is just gonna get turned off is a nonsense.

Spot on.

[ewerk 31221]

No, a separate tax or something that is specifically for the NHS. Should be a cross party thing set in stone.

 

When you start paying your taxes then you're allowed a view.

[Park Life 71]

Have you been to the countryside? There's loads of fucking space not used. There's room for literally hundreds of houses.

England isn't Ireland mate.

 

Every single refugee here and every single economic migrant wants to get to the UK. They are never going to learn German (hard to learn even with the best of wills) and most speak passable English.

Edited September 6, 2016 by Park Life

[Christmas Tree 4850]

I think you'll find you turd of a human being that the EU has no say what so ever over non EU migration. Fucking arsewipe.

I never said it did

[Christmas Tree 4850]

Are you saying that he lied?

No, I'm saying 17,500,000 people voting in a particular way focusses your mind.

[Rayvin 5304]

Compared to 16,000,000 the other way though. It's almost a Sophie's Choice style political problem.