Europe --- In or Out

[Christmas Tree 4726]

Wasn't the labour needed then, pre banking crisis?...

We discussed this earlier.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

Between 1998 and 2010 net emmigration of uk citizens increased 6 fold, a tidal wave of Brits going abroad stealing jobs.

Howay man, they were mainly people retiring to Spain and the like, quite different to poles etc (mainly single men), coming here, working for less money.

 

I'm not sure why we are arguing about this as it's pretty much a historical given that Labour got this wrong.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

Not impressed with Goves knifing or his interview.

 

May definitely my hope for PM. Seems very genuine (for a politician).

[Happy Face 29]

Howay man, they were mainly people retiring to Spain and the like, quite different to poles etc (mainly single men), coming here, working for less money.

 

I'm not sure why we are arguing about this as it's pretty much a historical given that Labour got this wrong.

As I say, those coming in were mainly Chinese and Indian too. I'm only providing counter arguments to your "tidal wave" Daily Mail patter.

 

On that note, following your received wisdom on Labour, there was a 6 fold increase in net EU immigratuon to the UK between 1993 and 1996, so the "flood" started on the Tory watch.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

As I say, those coming in were mainly Chinese and Indian too. I'm only providing counter arguments to your "tidal wave" Daily Mail patter.

 

On that note, following your received wisdom on Labour, there was a 6 fold increase in net EU immigratuon to the UK between 1993 and 1996, so the "flood" started on the Tory watch.

During the Tory years the EU immigration were mostly professionals, not cheap labour.

[Gemmill 44914]

Not impressed with Goves knifing or his interview.

 

May definitely my hope for PM. Seems very genuine (for a politician).

[emoji38] Genuine as fuck I'm sure.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

It's quite amazing the number of major political stories in the last week. Each one on their own would normally fill a weeks news cycle.

[Howmanheyman 33262]

During the Tory years the EU immigration were mostly professionals, not cheap labour.

That's good enough for me, CT.

 

[Park Life 71]

I know you lot are good lads and with what is going on there is anger, soul searching and a fair amount of navel gazing and perhaps even a little misplaced guilt.

 

If only you lot knew how the Germans see us, how they laugh and chortle at us and how they were convinced with the Eu they had finally fucked us over big time...

 

There is no such thing as free healthcare in Germany and try coming over hear and accessing the social net. The system is nothing like France or the much fairer Spain where

Brits are treated without question and the NHS is billed iirc...

 

If you so much as get picked up by an ambulance here you get a bill for 800 euros.

 

If you want to work here you are required to be fluent in German to at least B level and if you work in a big company you need business German (that takes the average punter inc me 5-8 years). Yes it keeps out a lot of job seekers...Same in Holland where Dutch is impenetrable as a language...The Turkish who have been here two decades are sneered at and discriminated against because apparently even the ones born here don't speak good German.

 

You see they all say freedom of movement but basically it means get to England.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Park Life

[Christmas Tree 4726]

That's good enough for me, CT.

 

 

I'm sure it's not so I'll offer into evidence the comprehensive study from Oxford University.

 

 

While Old EU nationals concentrate more in the professional occupations (e.g. health professionals, scientists), A8 nationals concentrate in elementary occupations (e.g. farm workers, cleaning). This difference in occupations also implies a difference in wages. Old EU nationals who work as employees earn an average of £34,000 per year, while this amount is only £17,000 for A8 nationals.

 

 

A8 countries

 

[Christmas Tree 4726]

I know you lot are good lads and with what is going on there is anger, soul searching and a fair amount of navel gazing and perhaps even a little misplaced guilt.

 

If only you lot knew how the Germans see us, how they laugh and chortle at us and how they were convinced with the Eu they had finally fucked us over big time...

 

There is no such thing as free healthcare in Germany and try coming over hear and accessing the social net. The system is nothing like France or the much fairer Spain where

Brits are treated without question and the NHS is billed iirc...

 

If you so much as get picked up by an ambulance here you get a bill for 800 euros.

While they all made big noises about contagion, they all know it's coming. It's one thing for them to deal with awkward Brit PM's over the years, but now they know how the actual population feel, they are shitting it.

 

Big EU changes over the next few two years which will help us get a good deal.

[Isegrim 9790]

I know you lot are good lads and with what is going on there is anger, soul searching and a fair amount of navel gazing and perhaps even a little misplaced guilt.

 

If only you lot knew how the Germans see us, how they laugh and chortle at us and how they were convinced with the Eu they had finally fucked us over big time...

 

There is no such thing as free healthcare in Germany and try coming over hear and accessing the social net. The system is nothing like France or the much fairer Spain where

Brits are treated without question and the NHS is billed iirc...

 

If you so much as get picked up by an ambulance here you get a bill for 800 euros.

 

If you want to work here you are required to be fluent in German to at least B level and if you work in a big company you need business German (that takes the average punter inc me 5-8 years). Yes it keeps out a lot of job seekers...Same in Holland where Dutch is impenetrable as a language...The Turkish who have been here two decades are sneered at and discriminated against because apparently even the ones born here don't speak good German.

 

You see they all say freedom of movement but basically it means get to England.

That is a lot of nonsense.

[Park Life 71]

There's no 'tax credits' here, no social housing for immigrants (there is for refugees) and unless you want to sit in a class room with 50 Afghani women who when asked decide they aren't going to even take the language test and you have to beg the teacher to take the fucking test and you haven't lost heart then hey welcome to Germany. It's piss take.

[Park Life 71]

That is a lot of nonsense.

Go on then.

 

At last count 11 Brits I used to know here gave up and went home.

 

We could compare my healthcare bill with a comparative German in the UK.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Park Life

[Park Life 71]

"In Germany, there is a two-tier welfare system - part based on contributions, part non-contributory. An EU migrant made jobless in Germany would get up to 70% of current salary in the first year of unemployment. After that, the unemployed go onto a non-contributory system called Hartz IV. Germany has objected to paying those benefits to EU migrants who have not made sufficient contributions through work. But that policy has been challenged in the courts."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25134521

 

My mate Gordon was unlucky in that he had a job when he got here but the company went under so he hadn't contributed enough into the system, within 4 months his unemployment money just stopped and he started getting bills from the healthcare company on top of that...They basically told him he hadn't paid in and it would take months to follow it through the system and challenge it...They offered him 50 euros a week and told him to move in with his girlfriend.

 

So when Cameron was trying to negotiate a new deal it was a strange experience for us watching it on the news.

 

Yes you can't just come here register and say you're looking for work. You can't sign on and you can't access healthcare unless you lie and say you're here on holiday...

Edited June 30, 2016 by Park Life

[Meenzer 15550]

What odds this glorious triumvirate will reform?

 

 

 

(...ok, probably not)

[Gemmill 44914]

[Isegrim 9790]

Go on then.

Health system in Germany is different as it is traditionally insurance based. But EU foreigners do have the right of health care via the European health card (tourists) or compulsory access to the private or statutory health insurances when they work here. Normally all your costs will be covered unless you want special (and not necessary) treatment. I have never paid a penny extra tbh.

 

There isn't any rule about you having to know the German language. But of course, I guess in most jobs you won't get far without being able to speak German in Germany. But what do you expect? How far do you get in England without being able to speak English?

Add to it that in a lot of business and tech companies English is the predominant language even here.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

I know you lot are good lads and with what is going on there is anger, soul searching and a fair amount of navel gazing and perhaps even a little misplaced guilt.

 

If only you lot knew how the Germans see us, how they laugh and chortle at us and how they were convinced with the Eu they had finally fucked us over big time...

 

There is no such thing as free healthcare in Germany and try coming over hear and accessing the social net. The system is nothing like France or the much fairer Spain where

Brits are treated without question and the NHS is billed iirc...

 

If you so much as get picked up by an ambulance here you get a bill for 800 euros.

 

If you want to work here you are required to be fluent in German to at least B level and if you work in a big company you need business German (that takes the average punter inc me 5-8 years). Yes it keeps out a lot of job seekers...Same in Holland where Dutch is impenetrable as a language...The Turkish who have been here two decades are sneered at and discriminated against because apparently even the ones born here don't speak good German.

 

You see they all say freedom of movement but basically it means get to England.

 

A few interesting posts. Are they all true?

 

Can a polish worker not just pop in and set up a building firm?

[Christmas Tree 4726]

Health system in Germany is different as it is traditionally insurance based. But EU foreigners do have the right of health care via the European health card (tourists) or compulsory access to the private or statutory health insurances when they work here. Normally all your costs will be covered unless you want special (and not necessary) treatment

So are you saying A and E type treatment but nothing else?

 

IE physio etc not covered?

[Isegrim 9790]

A few interesting posts. Are they all true?

 

Can a polish worker not just pop in and set up a building firm?

He can under the same preconditions as Germans can do. Regulations are a bit more strict than British are which does make it more difficult, but that is regardless of your nationality.

[Christmas Tree 4726]

He can under the same preconditions as Germans can do. Regulations are a bit more strict than British are which does make it more difficult, but that is regardless of your nationality.

And would they mean poles are better heading here than Germany?

[Park Life 71]

Health system in Germany is different as it is traditionally insurance based. But EU foreigners do have the right of health care via the European health card (tourists) or compulsory access to the private or statutory health insurances when they work here. Normally all your costs will be covered unless you want special (and not necessary) treatment. I have never paid a penny extra tbh.

 

There isn't any rule about you having to know the German language. But of course, I guess in most jobs you won't get far without being able to speak German in Germany. But what do you expect? How far do you get in England without being able to speak English?

Add to it that in a lot of business and tech companies English is the predominant language even here.

Of course I agree with the last bit reg language....But 80% of Europeans speak English and about 25% German... Where are they gonna go? It took me 3 fucking years to be able to hold a conversation in a bar...

 

EHC is for tourists. It's touch and go if you aren't German (even if you are an EU citizen) and don't have a job to get healthcare without being in the health insurance system. You're going to get a bill. You have to then work out who will refund you....UK? Germany? NHS?

 

In the UK you turn up regardless from where and get treated if you are a EU citizen.

 

Ise I swear to God Mrs P tried to pay when we lived in London and still talks about it now how they laughed and waived her away.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Park Life

[Dr Gloom 21934]

the nhs truly is a great British institution

[Isegrim 9790]

So are you saying A and E type treatment but nothing else?

 

IE physio etc not covered?

Of course they are. But e. g. if you want a single or double bed room in hospital you would have to pay yourself - unless it is covered by an insurance.