Europe --- In or Out

[Renton 21605]

The article seemed to be more about problems in the eurozone to me. Which thanks to Brown we're not part of.

 

My main difficulty with you CT on this issue is, like a lot of Brexiters, you're extremely selective on what experts you cite and which parts you cite. You've got a preformed opinion, formed i am sure out of contrariness, and you select your facts post hoc to fit this. You're quite good at it tbf. But to ignore what is happening around here or the vast majority of experts is, for a better word, retarded.

[Renton 21605]

That post you quoted has you replying to Renton, saying that it'll be business as usual economically and politically. Why refer to a post you got spectacularly wrong?

 

For what it's worth, there are parts of the EU I would have liked to see reformed. Its democratic deficit would have been a good area for the leave campaign to have debated. But it was ignored in favour of lies about immigration. Shame there wasn't an intelligent public debate.

 

But we are unquestionably a stronger country in rather than out, economically, and, for now at least, politically too. I think the next few weeks will continue to prove that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong but the majority of intelligent analyses suggests otherwise. Your prediction of a mild recession seems wildly optimistic at this point.

Mildest recession in 60 years. A prime example of what I'm saying.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

That post you quoted has you replying to Renton, saying that it'll be business as usual economically and politically. Why refer to a post you got spectacularly wrong?

 

For what it's worth, there are parts of the EU I would have liked to see reformed. Its democratic deficit would have been a good area for the leave campaign to have debated. But it was ignored in favour of lies about immigration. Shame there wasn't an intelligent public debate.

 

But we are unquestionably a stronger country in rather than out, economically, and, for now at least, politically too. I think the next few weeks will continue to prove that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong but the majority of intelligent analyses suggests otherwise. Your prediction of a mild recession seems wildly optimistic at this point.

Tbh, not much point in continually revisiting the campaign. I agree with you it was pretty shit from both sides.

 

It wasn't my view of a mild recession, that was just one of the reports I read.

 

As for whether we'll have one, we won't know til next year. Krugman thinks it's unlikely from what he views underlying the markets.

 

I also think it will depend on how positive our politicians are and start talking Brexit up.

 

I also read yesterday that the BOE has learned a lot from 2008 with regard to which leavers to pull.

 

Finally, Osborne had us heading towards a surplus in 2018? It may well be that the new PM decides a surplus isn't a priority just yet.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

The article seemed to be more about problems in the eurozone to me. Which thanks to Brown we're not part of.

 

My main difficulty with you CT on this issue is, like a lot of Brexiters, you're extremely selective on what experts you cite and which parts you cite. You've got a preformed opinion, formed i am sure out of contrariness, and you select your facts post hoc to fit this. You're quite good at it tbf. But to ignore what is happening around here or the vast majority of experts is, for a better word, retarded.

Not too sure what I've ignored? I accepted there may well be a recession prior to the vote and suggested that a bit of perspective is required when looking at the markets. Something the usual go to toontastic expert Krugman agrees with.

[Gemmill 44849]

Osborne isn't getting a surplus by the end of this Parliament. He wasn't before Brexit and he sure as shit isn't after it.

[Andrew 4748]

3 arrested in manchester today after racially abusing a man on a tram.

 

Considerable rise in race related incidents reported since friday.

[JJ 0]

Finally, Osborne had us heading towards a surplus in 2018? It may well be that the new PM decides a surplus isn't a priority just yet.

 

No-one on the planet thought Gideon would run a budget surplus in 2018. This is the most laughable statement in this entire thread, and when history is re-written when we're nowhere near a surplus and it's blamed on the referendum result, we'll be here to point that out when your lot say otherwise.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

 

No-one on the planet thought Gideon would run a budget surplus in 2018. This is the most laughable statement in this entire thread, and when history is re-written when we're nowhere near a surplus and it's blamed on the referendum result, we'll be here to point that out when your lot say otherwise.

Your right, the OBR said the budget surplus would be 2019/2020. As for whether it would have been achieved I can't say it's something I've really looked into.

 

My point was more that a new PM might take a totally different view and decide to increase spending to head off a recession.

[Tom 14011]

I think if we put up with these really tough times now things will get better for everyone later.

[Andrew 4748]

I think if we put up with these really tough times now things will get better for everyone later.

 

Aye, or worse.

 

Or they'll stay the same.

 

[Meenzer 15518]

https://storify.com/raphkoster/thought-on-brexit-and-governance

[Dr Gloom 21915]

Tbh, not much point in continually revisiting the campaign. I agree with you it was pretty shit from both sides.

 

It wasn't my view of a mild recession, that was just one of the reports I read.

 

As for whether we'll have one, we won't know til next year. Krugman thinks it's unlikely from what he views underlying the markets.

 

I also think it will depend on how positive our politicians are and start talking Brexit up.

 

I also read yesterday that the BOE has learned a lot from 2008 with regard to which leavers to pull.

 

Finally, Osborne had us heading towards a surplus in 2018? It may well be that the new PM decides a surplus isn't a priority just yet.

The remain campaign was too negative for me, they should have talked up the benefits of being in the EU instead of just warning about the consequences of leavings, but it seemed they followed the tactics that worked in the Scottish referendum and to be fair, the warnings about the consequences of leaving were grounded in reality. The leave campaign's arguments were almost all nonsense as has been subsequently revealed just hours after the result came in by u-turns from the likes of Farage, IDS and Gove

[Alex 35077]

That post you quoted has you replying to Renton, saying that it'll be business as usual economically and politically. Why refer to a post you got spectacularly wrong?

For what it's worth, there are parts of the EU I would have liked to see reformed. Its democratic deficit would have been a good area for the leave campaign to have debated. But it was ignored in favour of lies about immigration. Shame there wasn't an intelligent public debate.

But we are unquestionably a stronger country in rather than out, economically, and, for now at least, politically too. I think the next few weeks will continue to prove that. Obviously I hope I'm wrong but the majority of intelligent analyses suggests otherwise. Your prediction of a mild recession seems wildly optimistic at this point.

in fairness, when you change your mind as often as he does it's difficult to remember the point you were making whilst furiously searching for posts you think have proven you were previously correct.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

The remain campaign was too negative for me, they should have talked up the benefits of being in the EU instead of just warning about the consequences of leavings, but it seemed they followed the tactics that worked in the Scottish referendum and to be fair, the warnings about the consequences of leaving were grounded in reality. The leave campaign's arguments were almost all nonsense as has been subsequently revealed just hours after the result came in by u-turns from the likes of Farage, IDS and Gove

I think there's a lot more sense in the tweets @@Meenzer just linked too, than the majority of what either side said in the campaign.

 

How you change the style of politics though? God knows.

[Alex 35077]

I think if we put up with these really tough times now things will get better for everyone later.

There was some wife on telly the other day, saying the country could be great in 20 years. She was 60 if she was a day. Basically willing to write off the last 20 years of her life on some nebulous idea of "making this country great again". Like it was ever great for anyone other than the elite, generally speaking.

[Tom 14011]

There was some wife on telly the other day, saying the country could be great in 20 years. She was 60 if she was a day. Basically willing to write off the last 20 years of her life on some nebulous idea of "making this country great again". Like it was ever great for anyone other than the elite, generally speaking.

Aye

 

We're knacked like. Oh & of course taxes will be going up & our money will be worth less - I'm not sure the people cheering the Brexit result knew that.

 

It'll be fine though, unregulated zero hour jobs for everyone!

[ohhh_yeah 2964]

 

With your extensive knowledge, you really deserve more lacerated guitar smilies.

[Gemmill 44849]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/political-leaders-elitism-eu-referendum

 

Reading something like that makes me think it's right that Corbyn digs in or else it's just another return to the status quo.

[Renton 21605]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/28/political-leaders-elitism-eu-referendum

 

Reading something like that makes me think it's right that Corbyn digs in or else it's just another return to the status quo.

Are you seriously suggesting Corbyn's position is tenable and it's for the good if he stays on? The status quo has well and truly been torn up anyway, you sound like CT if you think it's business as usual. Whatever the problems are Corbyn is not, and never was, the solution.

[Happy Face 29]

It's ironic that the labor party generally think Corbyn was too weak on immigration and want a leader who will be more vocally opposed to it (chase the electorate rather than maintain a principle) but none has been more vocally opposed to the wars that have caused the refugee crisis the rags used to whip up mass hysteria.

[Rayvin 5217]

At the same time Renton, it's now very clear that Corbyn was not, by any stretch, the only problem in the Labour party. Their utter failure in the years gone by made him inevitable.

[PaddockLad 17246]

Are you seriously suggesting Corbyn's position is tenable and it's for the good if he stays on? The status quo has well and truly been torn up anyway, you sound like CT if you think it's business as usual. Whatever the problems are Corbyn is not, and never was, the solution.

He's not the solution to a United Labour Party but seeing as the entire uk pretty much think they're not fit for purpose whoever is leading them then its all a bit irrelevent

 

Let the split happen, if enough of the Blairites go to the Lin Dems they may stand a chance next year on a complelty pro Europe ticket, I think the last week has scared enough of the Brexit voting "persuaderbles" that this is a bad idea and maybe there'll be another austerity friendly hung parliament

 

Jezzas mob needs someone in their thirties who's not a career politician that has the wit charm and charisma to make a good anti neo liberalism case to the people of all the UK. Fuck knows who's daft enough to take that on though...

[Renton 21605]

At the same time Renton, it's now very clear that Corbyn was not, by any stretch, the only problem in the Labour party. Their utter failure in the years gone by made him inevitable.

It would be a dream of mine to go back to the bad old days status quo we had a decade ago under Blair. They look positively halcyon compared to now and where we're headed.

 

Might add, I doubt there was a person on this board more opposed to the ME wars than me. I will never defend Blair's geopolitical legacy. However, domestically its my sincere belief he improved things for the large majority and there wasn't such an underlying feeling of right wing tension we have now. It all went to shit following the recession, but Corbyn has made things much worse.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Renton

[Gemmill 44849]

Nicky Morgan and Jeremy Hunt both considering running. I mean do these cunts really have no idea what the public perception of them and their ability to do their jobs is?! Talk about living in a bubble ffs.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Nicky Morgan and Jeremy Hunt both considering running. I mean do these cunts really have no idea what the public perception of them and their ability to do their jobs is?! Talk about living in a bubble ffs.

I watched Morgan this morning. Horrible insincere woman. I'll be amazed if either stands.