Europe --- In or Out

[Gemmill 44851]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/hilary-benn-revolt-jeremy-corbyn

 

Corbyn had had a skinfull tbf.

[Howmanheyman 33166]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/boris-johnson-michael-gove-eu-liars?CMP=share_btn_tw

 

Not sure if this has been posted.

[Rayvin 5217]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/hilary-benn-revolt-jeremy-corbyn

 

Corbyn had had a skinfull tbf.

Wow. I'm surprised and not surprised by that. Surprised mostly because I thought Corbyn would go. It appears he is going to make it painful.

 

I think I'll abstain in any vote on leadership, and then probably leave the party. I've been appalled for about a year now at how factions within it have conducted things, attempting to undermine Corbyn at every turn, and I have no faith in them.

 

That said, it now seems to me that Corbyn has an impossible task ahead of him and that the damage to the party is terminal. Maybe someone else can turn things around but they'll be doing it without my support.

 

I'm going to go to the Lib Dems since they've come out to campaign on the concept of taking us back into Europe. It'll be another wasted vote of course but mine always are.

[ewerk 30598]

Or maybe the PLP has just been right all along and Corbyn's appointment was the electoral disaster that it predicted.'?

[Rayvin 5217]

Or maybe the PLP has just been right all along and Corbyn's appointment was the electoral disaster that it predicted.'?

You and I are going to disagree on this forever. We'll never know how well Corbyn would have done if the party hadn't undermined him at every turn. Surely, even with your strong doubts about him as a leader, you can see that the blairites have made this impossible for him and in doing so, have ensured they were right.

 

Roll on the death of Labour, I'm sick of all of them.

[ewerk 30598]

With or without their support it was always impossible for Corbyn given his lack of intellect and charisma. He was voted Labour leader on a similar wave of anti-establishment feeling that has led to this referendum result.

 

In short, you're no better than CT.

[ewerk 30598]

Now half the shadow cabinet are set to resign...

[Christmas Tree 4725]

So the Labour coup is underway. Two shadow cabinets gone, more as the day goes on.

 

What a mess.

[Happy Face 29]

With or without their support it was always impossible for Corbyn given his lack of intellect and charisma. He was voted Labour leader on a similar wave of anti-establishment feeling that has led to this referendum result.

 

In short, you're no better than CT.

Whatever one thinks of Corbyn's talents, you say that as if only people of great intellect and/or charisma get to lead nations.

[Rayvin 5217]

@ ewerk

 

 

Actually this is a fair point. I voted Corbyn (and I said this in the politics thread) not because I thought he could win, but because I wanted change. I even think that, looking at it now, Corbyn most closely represents the views of those who just voted brexit, and so am doubtful that anyone more centrist would have made any difference.

 

The problem I have now, that I didn't expect, is that my left wing hopes and dreams have been betrayed by the working class, as much as their hopes and dreams had been betrayed by new Labour.

 

That's where Labour is now, and it looks impossible to reconcile the two.

 

If this is my fault for voting Corbyn and wanting real change then all I can say is that I'm sorry. I don't believe that this is the case, I believe this is on the Tories in entirety, but I might well be wrong.

 

We certainly got real change...

Edited June 26, 2016 by Rayvin

[Rayvin 5217]

So the Labour coup is underway. Two shadow cabinets gone, more as the day goes on.

 

What a mess.

We said this would happen. We said there would be chaos.

[ewerk 30598]

Whatever one thinks of Corbyn's talents, you say that as if only people of great intellect and/or charisma get to lead nations.

They normally have one or the other. Or a massive thirst for blood.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

We said this would happen. We said there would be chaos.

This is nothing to do with Brexit. This has been coming since he was appointed. Labour MP's are just hiding behind Brexit to do the dirty deed.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

On the immigration theme, I was walking around Birmingham city centre yesterday and was genuinely surprised at how few white people I saw. I lived in Leeds for

3 years which has a massive Asian population so it's not as if I'm naive to multiculturalism but tou forget how predominantly white British the North East is still

[Happy Face 29]

They normally have one or the other. Or a massive thirst for blood.

Like Burnham.

[Renton 21606]

So the Labour coup is underway. Two shadow cabinets gone, more as the day goes on.

 

What a mess.

? Business as usual.

[Dr Gloom 21915]

The brass neck on Farage is really something

 

Nigel Farage says Britain heading for recession 'regardless of Brexit'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nigel-farage-ukip-britain-recession-brexit

[Renton 21606]

This is nothing to do with Brexit. This has been coming since he was appointed. Labour MP's are just hiding behind Brexit to do the dirty deed.

I think it might have just a little to do with Brexit. Mind, that Cameron going, just happens to coincide with Brexit.....

[Dr Gloom 21915]

This is nothing to do with Brexit. This has been coming since he was appointed. Labour MP's are just hiding behind Brexit to do the dirty deed.

And the prospect of a general election. The coup would have come later if they weren't expecting us to go to the polls again sooner rather than later

[Renton 21606]

The brass neck on Farage is really something

 

Nigel Farage says Britain heading for recession 'regardless of Brexit'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nigel-farage-ukip-britain-recession-brexit

"Mild" recession. Is Farage CT in disguise, or vice versa?

[ewerk 30598]

May 2016

 

Farage told the Mirror: In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.

June 2016

 

"Its the last thing I want to see. Its not a game of the best of three.

[Rayvin 5217]

This is looking desperate now, like. Corbyn has to go at this point or allow the Blairites to tear the party apart.

 

If there is a GE, as now seems likely, I think we can safely say that it's going to be a hung parliament.

[Happy Face 29]

3 days for the shadow cabinet to kick off to ensure the hoofing corbyn gets is maximised in the news cycle rather than buried in the initial Brexit fallout.

 

Real knife twisting shit.

[Renton 21606]

This is looking desperate now, like. Corbyn has to go at this point or allow the Blairites to tear the party apart.

 

If there is a GE, as now seems likely, I think we can safely say that it's going to be a hung parliament.

Do you label every progressive member of the labour party a Blairite? I was going to ask you to calm down and stick with membership, however, you need to know that Corbyn isn't representative of the active long term labour membership.

 

End of the day, labour is finished as it stands now. Maybe there's scope for a new far left leaning party for people like you to support. Me, I prefer a one centrist approach and in most probability a merger with the lib dems. In recent months I've noticed I am much closer to Meenzer in sentiment than anyone else on here, not sure that's mutual though.

 

Anyway, as we will take nearly all the MPs, we should also get the name.

[Rayvin 5217]

Do you label every progressive member of the labour party a Blairite? I was going to ask you to calm down and stick with membership, however, you need to know that Corbyn isn't representative of the active long term labour membership.

 

End of the day, labour is finished as it stands now. Maybe there's scope for a new far left leaning party for people like you to support. Me, I prefer a one centrist approach and in most probability a merger with the lib dems. In recent months I've noticed I am much closer to Meenzer in sentiment than anyone else on here, not sure that's mutual though.

 

Anyway, as we will take nearly all the MPs, we should also get the name.

 

Um no, I meant the actual PLP with that. Not the membership. I appreciate that the membership have divided views on this.

 

Also, as I said, I'm off to the Lib Dems. No point in me staying in a party on the 'far left' when those who it would be helping are voting us out of Europe. That decision has made my views and theirs incompatible.