Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 5223]

Ha ha! Up yours you falaffel munching, book reading, pseudo-left wing - do gooders! As Orwell said, "The only hope lies in the proles".

 

You sure this isn't some kind of neo-liberal conspiracy set up as a false flag by the establishment and associated lizard-people?

Edited June 25, 2016 by Rayvin

[Christmas Tree 4725]

http://www.unilad.co.uk/news/the-daily-mail-explains-what-brexit-means-readers-seem-shocked/

 

The daily mail apparently explained, post-result, what Brexit would mean. This article highlights the views of several readers and their feelings on this once the actual information was available to them.

 

Totally made up bollocks!

 

It's a well known fact that Brexiters holiday at their nearest uk seaside resort and are far to poor and thick to travel, study or buy foreign property.

[toonotl 2980]

Serious Questions now:

 

Is there any data on the economic performance of Norway (relevant since they're non-EU) compared with EU countries to suggest that the UK will be harmed by the decision to depart? Isn't Norway the go-to example for basically every 'quality of life' metric worldwide? Is it possible that the shortfall in funding to the UK provided by the EU could be taken up by the UK government with the money saved by not contributing to the EU's fund? Doesn't Switzerland receive EU science funding for the facility at Cern despite the Swiss being a non-EU country? Why couldn't this happen with the UK as a non-EU country?

 

I know very little about the implications for trade, but hasn't the US assured the UK that nothing will change in terms of their trade relationship? How big is the UK economy? (I know Australia is about 10th (from memory), the UK must be top-3). Australia does well from trade (granted based largely on mineral and agricultural exports) but, even so, couldn't the UK still hold a lot of power in the international marketplace? More than little ol' Oz, at least?

 

Could this entire #brexit debacle be a massive storm in a teacup?

 

From an outsiders perspective, I feel like there is a lot of misinformation on both sides (from those up top) and a lot of hyperbole and hysteria from the masses.

[Christmas Tree 4725]

Ha ha! Up yours you falaffel munching, book reading, pseudo-left wing - do gooders! As Orwell said, "The only hope lies in the proles".

[Renton 21628]

Why would anyone regret the first step in our glorious return to our egalitarian bisexual roots?

 

The Western Establishment is crumbling. If any of you 'Establishment Losers' lived close to the Amazon with your dogs and boyfriend, you'd realise humanity's much delayed first trudging baby-trudge in the direction of freedom for what it is.

 

Purple tracksuits! Assemble!

Fuck off you Ozzie cunt.())

 

What do you down unders make of this charade? I mean, tempting as it is, it's not ALL Gemmill's fault...

[toonotl 2980]

Ha ha! Up yours you falaffel munching, book reading, pseudo-left wing - do gooders! As Orwell said, "The only hope lies in the proles".

 

 

Right on time. Get your tracksuit. We've got a Grove to infiltrate.

 

 

Also...

 

book reading

 

 

 

 

Ha ha! Up yours you falaffel munching, book reading, pseudo-left wing - do gooders! As Orwell said, "The only hope lies in the proles".

[toonotl 2980]

Fuck off you Ozzie cunt.( ))

 

What do you down unders make of this charade? I mean, tempting as it is, it's not ALL Gemmill's fault...

 

[Rayvin 5223]

Serious Questions now:

 

Is there any data on the economic performance of Norway (relevant since they're non-EU) compared with EU countries to suggest that the UK will be harmed by the decision to depart? Isn't Norway the go-to example for basically every 'quality of life' metric worldwide? Is it possible that the shortfall in funding to the UK provided by the EU could be taken up by the UK government with the money saved by not contributing to the EU's fund? Doesn't Switzerland receive EU science funding for the facility at Cern despite the Swiss being a non-EU country? Why couldn't this happen with the UK as a non-EU country?

 

I know very little about the implications for trade, but hasn't the US assured the UK that nothing will change in terms of their trade relationship? How big is the UK economy? (I know Australia is about 10th (from memory), the UK must be top-3). Australia does well from trade (granted based largely on mineral and agricultural exports) but, even so, couldn't the UK still hold a lot of power in the international marketplace? More than little ol' Oz, at least?

 

Could this entire #brexit debacle be a massive storm in a teacup?

 

From an outsiders perspective, I feel like there is a lot of misinformation on both sides (from those up top) and a lot of hyperbole and hysteria from the masses.

 

 

Norway has a strong economy due to its oil revenues largely, as I understand it. The Norwegian finance minister effectively counselled us to remain. We ignored him of course, because he's both a foreigner and an expert.

 

The UK doesn't save a great deal through not contributing to the EU - especially if we adopt the single market anyway, as Gove has suggested we will, which will see us paying about 90% of what we were paying anyway. But with no say in how the thing runs.

 

No idea about the science funding - maybe it could, but the EU will be looking to make this painful for us so I wouldn't be expecting any handouts.

 

US-UK trade presumably won't be harmed, although if there were plans in that respect it's unlikely they would just be 'revealed'. Obama strongly cautioned us against this action though.

 

The UK economy was 5th in the world I think, but fell below France as a result of Brexit. Now 6th.

 

Yep, the UK probably will do ok in the international marketplace - but most of our trade is with Europe. I think I read around 50% but I'm open to fact checking. How well we will do depends on how quickly businesses can adapt. An unnecessary risk IMO, but people like CT seem to have faith.

 

I think in terms of the economy it's not going to be a showstopper for the UK - it will make us a bit worse off, probably most felt by the working class. It will mean the break up of the union, so that's not great. This will in turn mean England returning right wing governments to the despair of people like myself. If I'm still here anyway. I think the lies, the U-turns, and the political fall out make this more than a storm in a teacup though. This is a big deal. It feels like the most significant political event that I've lived through - I mean, I'm seriously looking at leaving the country. I'm amazed that I am, but there it is.

 

Hysteria is how Britain operates these days.

[Park Life 71]

[Renton 21628]

Serious Questions now:

 

Is there any data on the economic performance of Norway (relevant since they're non-EU) compared with EU countries to suggest that the UK will be harmed by the decision to depart? Isn't Norway the go-to example for basically every 'quality of life' metric worldwide? Is it possible that the shortfall in funding to the UK provided by the EU could be taken up by the UK government with the money saved by not contributing to the EU's fund? Doesn't Switzerland receive EU science funding for the facility at Cern despite the Swiss being a non-EU country? Why couldn't this happen with the UK as a non-EU country?

 

I know very little about the implications for trade, but hasn't the US assured the UK that nothing will change in terms of their trade relationship? How big is the UK economy? (I know Australia is about 10th (from memory), the UK must be top-3). Australia does well from trade (granted based largely on mineral and agricultural exports) but, even so, couldn't the UK still hold a lot of power in the international marketplace? More than little ol' Oz, at least?

 

Could this entire #brexit debacle be a massive storm in a teacup?

 

From an outsiders perspective, I feel like there is a lot of misinformation on both sides (from those up top) and a lot of hyperbole and hysteria from the masses.

You know nothing toon otl [\Ygritte]

 

Tbh I can't be arsed to go into detail what has happened in UK politics since last election, but to summarise, the UK is literally tearing itself apart and trying to take down itself Europe with it. We are in this strange situition where white female pensioners are cackling to themselves in ecstacy while knitting bobble heads to prevent their grand children getting hangovers. Except these kids ARE still getting hangovers, because Polish Pauline has taken their job.

 

Am not going to spell out everything else, but I'll mention the fact if the worst comes to the worst, Sydney, Melbourne and that funny rock in the middle are geting a warhead coming their way. No excuses.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Renton

[toonotl 2980]

 

 

Norway has a strong economy due to its oil revenues largely, as I understand it. The Norwegian finance minister effectively counselled us to remain. We ignored him of course, because he's both a foreigner and an expert.

 

The UK doesn't save a great deal through not contributing to the EU - especially if we adopt the single market anyway, as Gove has suggested we will, which will see us paying about 90% of what we were paying anyway. But with no say in how the thing runs.

 

No idea about the science funding - maybe it could, but the EU will be looking to make this painful for us so I wouldn't be expecting any handouts.

 

US-UK trade presumably won't be harmed, although if there were plans in that respect it's unlikely they would just be 'revealed'. Obama strongly cautioned us against this action though.

 

The UK economy was 5th in the world I think, but fell below France as a result of Brexit. Now 6th.

 

Yep, the UK probably will do ok in the international marketplace - but most of our trade is with Europe. I think I read around 50% but I'm open to fact checking. How well we will do depends on how quickly businesses can adapt. An unnecessary risk IMO, but people like CT seem to have faith.

 

I think in terms of the economy it's not going to be a showstopper for the UK - it will make us a bit worse off, probably most felt by the working class. It will mean the break up of the union, so that's not great. This will in turn mean England returning right wing governments to the despair of people like myself. If I'm still here anyway. I think the lies, the U-turns, and the political fall out make this more than a storm in a teacup though. This is a big deal. It feels like the most significant political event that I've lived through - I mean, I'm seriously looking at leaving the country. I'm amazed that I am, but there it is.

 

Hysteria is how Britain operates these days.

 

The Norwegian advice is interesting, as is the US's.

 

The difference between 5th and 6th can't be much. (I know, it's the French, but take out Normandy (they're Vikings) and you're still on top of the cheesy cunts.)

 

Personally, I think, this will be one of those things where everything will remain almost exactly the same in the long run despite all the current noise. Which is an argument for the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach, really, isn't it?

 

It seems that the vote to leave has been swayed by respective minorities of outdated Imperialists, insular racists, and bonkers conspiracy nuts.

 

What are the arguments of the sensible LEAVE voters leaving out all the governmental rhetoric? Is there a sensible argument? Half the country can't be completely fucking mad. You're not Ireland.

[toonotl 2980]

Am not going to spell out everything else, but I'll mention the fact if the worst comes to the worst, Sidney, Melbourne and that funny rock in the middle are geting a warhead coming their way. No excuses. D

 

 

I'll get on the blower to warn PM cuntface.

[Rayvin 5223]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101369197042185&id=223406919&set=a.10101369198638985&source=56

 

A current list of racism, yells for people to go back home, and other associated hatred examples from those who have voted to leave. It's depressing as fuck.

 

"This is England, foreigners have 48 hours to fuck off. Who's a foreigner? Who's foreign?" - @ Tesco in Gloucester. There are more than 50 examples of similar things listed here and it's been about a day.

[Rayvin 5223]

 

What are the arguments of the sensible LEAVE voters leaving out all the governmental rhetoric? Is there a sensible argument? Half the country can't be completely fucking mad. You're not Ireland.

 

I think there were some. Immigration can be considered a legitimate concern, definitely. Unfortunately it turns out that Brexit, according to those who led the Leave campaign, isn't actually going to address that. So that's now irrelevant and a wasted vote for anyone who wanted it. This was of course revealed post-vote.

 

Spending on the EU has also been rubbished, so that went out the window as a legitimate reason.

 

We're left with the sovereignty argument. People don't like the EU dictating how we should run things. I can see why some people feel this way, but we're actually going to have to continue doing what the EU wants as part of joining the single market again, it would seem. So in reality they're not going to get that either. I suppose they do get symbolic sovereignty. Maybe that's worth it to some.

 

Otherwise, I've heard a lot about the EU falling to pieces and that we should be well shot of it, but this ignores the fact that in or out of the EU, if it fell to pieces, it'd take Britain with it.

 

I'm afraid that this really was as stupid a decision as it looks.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Rayvin

[toonotl 2980]

 

I think there were some. Immigration can be considered a legitimate concern, definitely. Unfortunately it turns out that Brexit, according to those who led the Leave campaign, isn't actually going to address that. So that's now irrelevant and a wasted vote for anyone who wanted it.

 

Spending on the EU has also been rubbished, so that went out the window as a legitimate reason.

 

We're left with the sovereignty argument. People don't like the EU dictating how we should run things. I can see why some people feel this way, but we're actually going to have to continue doing what the EU wants as part of joining the single market again, it would seem. So in reality they're not going to get that either. I suppose they do get symbolic sovereignty. Maybe that's worth it to some.

 

Otherwise, I've heard a lot about the EU falling to pieces and that we should be well shot of it, but this ignores the fact that in or out of the EU, if it fell to pieces, it'd take Britain with it.

 

I'm afraid that this really was as stupid a decision as it looks.

 

Put that succinctly, you're right, leaving the EU seems dumb. I always knew you lot were thick as fuck.

[Rayvin 5223]

I daresay CT will advise you that everything is presently in 'negotiation' and we all have bright futures to look forward to.

 

He will then blame all of this on Labour a few months down the line.

[toonotl 2980]

CT is #2British4u

[Rayvin 5223]

Also, and in fairness, everything I've set out concerns the actual reasons to leave the EU from the leave side. That ignores what this was actually about, which seems to be a combination of hatred of immigrants, and protest voting the government for the generally shit living standards of so many people. People got it into their head, largely because they were told this by people like Boris Johnson and Farage, that this was about voting against the establishment, and showing the 'elites' who was boss. They have, in truth effectively managed to do this. At the expense of better futures for basically all of us.

 

But that's a reason too I guess, even if the EU is nothing more than the context of the vote, rather than the origin.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Rayvin

[adios 717]

The funny thing about this, is we're talking about a swing of what, a million people? If things had gone as expected would the world really be any less filled with cunts?

[Rayvin 5223]

No, it wouldn't. You're right.

 

All the economic shit wouldn't be happening but still, you're ultimately right. Sadly.

[Renton 21628]

To summarise rayvin's well made points toonotl, the UK is canny fucked, or might be. I really think we're going down the swanney.

 

The EU is a massive scape goat in all this imo. It's not an entirely benevolent organisation, but it has given the whole of Europe so, so much. I am actually ashamed to be English now. A lot on this board will not see why, but it's how i see it. A nation of cunts, still trying to get one over all our neighbours, and playing the bizarre "UK exceptionqlism" rule.

 

Anyway, Howay Iceland!

Edited June 26, 2016 by Renton

[toonotl 2980]

Yeah. I was actually leaning the other way prior to today's discussion, thinking it might be beneficial for the UK to cut loose from an ailing mainland Europe. But having had this discussion I tend to agree with you and Rayvin.

 

It seems that the UK gaining its nominal independence from the EU-block is more grasping at straws, than a bulwark against the slide into the mire that some would like to think it is.

 

 

Also, I noticed that CT was for LEAVE with everyone against him.

 

The moral of the story: if you find yourself agreeing with CT on a topic, you don't know enough yet.

[Gemmill 44901]

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10101369197042185&id=223406919&set=a.10101369198638985&source=56

 

A current list of racism, yells for people to go back home, and other associated hatred examples from those who have voted to leave. It's depressing as fuck.

 

"This is England, foreigners have 48 hours to fuck off. Who's a foreigner? Who's foreign?" - @ Tesco in Gloucester. There are more than 50 examples of similar things listed here and it's been about a day.

That's outrageous from Tesco.

[Gemmill 44901]

To summarise rayvin's well made points toonotl, the UK is canny fucked, or might be. I really think we're going down the swanney.

 

The EU is a massive scape goat in all this imo. It's not an entirely benevolent organisation, but it has given the whole of Europe so, so much. I am actually ashamed to be English now. A lot on this board will not see why, but it's how i see it. A nation of cunts, still trying to get one over all our neighbours, and playing the bizarre "UK exceptionqlism" rule.

 

Anyway, Howay Iceland!

I'll skull fuck you in Union Jack underpants.

[Howmanheyman 33251]

That's outrageous from Tesco.

Completely agree. £1.30 for a four Pinter bottle of milk? Fuck you tesco.