Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:09, Monkeys Fist said: Reveal hidden contents he dies Reveal hidden contents It's still remarkably tense as the furturistic top secret stealth helicopters are flying in near silence through the mountains en route to the hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 51437 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Having watched it, do you still think it was an advert for torture? Edited January 24, 2013 by Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 45862 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:17, Happy Face said: Reveal hidden contents It's still remarkably tense as the furturistic top secret stealth helicopters are flying in near silence through the mountains en route to the hit Have they not got March of The Valkyries or Voodoo Chile blaring out from their speakers like??? The Yanks are learning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:25, Gemmill said: Having watched it, do you still think it was an advert for torture? I can't see how it can be taken any other way. The first half of the film is the information gathering. An hour of it is torture....then half an hour tailing the guy that everyone they tortured said was the guy....apart from one, who was still useful because what he didn't tell them was more useful than what he did. While it seemed like year after year of dead ends and confusion, turns out every person tortured in the film had provided the correct information...the CIA just hadn't put the pieces together correctly. Those that weren't tortured on screen said they weere talking in order to avoid being tortured because they had suffered before. How does that not scream "torture is effective"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:25, Gemmill said: Having watched it, do you still think it was an advert for torture? I thought the complete opposite. It clearly demonstrated long tedious on the ground spy work over physical torture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 51437 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 It screams "this is what happened". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Balls of steel the young lads who have to fly into these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:37, Gemmill said: It screams "this is what happened". And it's lying. The capture of Bin Laden did not use any intelligence gathered from torture. The CIA, FBI and members of the senate intelligence committee all agree on that... http://www.huffingto..._n_1465820.html http://www.motherjon...n-laden-killing http://andrewsulliva...-rodriguez.html If however, they are all lying, and it was torture that got to Bin Laden, then what the film is saying is "that's ok", the hero of the film is a war criminal, live with it. Most films I see with war criminals in casts them in a less glorified role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 3.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:38, Christmas Tree said: Balls of steel the young lads who have to fly into these situations. Dozens of highly armed men with the latest lethal technology and night vision flying an invisible helicopter to a country house in the dead of night where there are 3 men with an AK each and their wives and kids. The odds were stacked in their favour tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Torture must work. They would only need take a feather to my feet and I would spill everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Haven't seen it but if this is the 'official story' and she had official advisors and help from the army etc...Then the whole thing will be skewed...Of course it will. Hollywood in these areas operates as a myth maker and a revisionist right back from the Rambo days - it trivialises slaughter and centralises the white characters right to meat out justice. Edited January 24, 2013 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:53, Happy Face said: Dozens of highly armed men with the latest lethal technology and night vision flying an invisible helicopter to a country house in the dead of night where there are 3 men with an AK each and their wives and kids. The odds were stacked in their favour tbf. Im sure they odd were in their favour but they'll all have seen films like black hawk down etc and here they are illegally flying into a foreign country to find the Osama Bin Laden. Still very brave imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:53, Happy Face said: Dozens of highly armed men with the latest lethal technology and night vision flying an invisible helicopter to a country house in the dead of night where there are 3 men with an AK each and their wives and kids. The odds were stacked in their favour tbf. America doesn't fight countries that can defend themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 09:02, Christmas Tree said: Im sure they odd were in their favour but they'll all have seen films like black hawk down etc and here they are illegally flying into a foreign country to find the Osama Bin Laden. Still very brave imo. If the Pakistanis knew they were coming they would have been toast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=d-UaVgT5G1k&feature=fvwp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 08:37, Christmas Tree said: I thought the complete opposite. It clearly demonstrated long tedious on the ground spy work over physical torture. What ground work was done that didn't come from torture based intelligence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:12, Happy Face said: What ground work was done that didn't come from torture based intelligence? I dont remember them saying that all other mentions of the guy were derived from torture techniques. I thought the way he was shoved in the box and basically said anything summed up the torture didnt work. Followed by a change of tac, the slap up meal. Sorry btw I have asked for an explaination how to use the spoiler function but as yet you've all kept stum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:17, Christmas Tree said: I dont remember them saying that all other mentions of the guy were derived from torture techniques. I thought the way he was shoved in the box and basically said anything summed up the torture didnt work. Followed by a change of tac, the slap up meal. Sorry btw I have asked for an explaination how to use the spoiler function but as yet you've all kept stum. You use spoiler tags Reveal hidden contents The fella that was shoved in the box gave them the name 'Abu Ahmed'. She corroborates this watching videos on her PC of other detainees being tortured and giving the same name . When Abu Faraj is captured (he's the fella all the victims said receives messages from Bin Laden via Ahmed) they torture him and he gives up EVERYTHING he can on a small scale...but nothing to do with Bin Laden...or Ahmed. Maya takes that as confirmation Ahmed is as important as Bin Laden. That was the first hour of the film. It's followed by a 30 second scene where some young intern turns up and says "by the way, we had this Ahmed fella's name sent to us after 9/11, but it got lost in the mountain of stuff we were looking at". There is nothing whatsoever to suggest they would have found Ahmed without torture......or that torture would be too high a price to pay in order to find him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:27, Happy Face said: You use spoiler tags Reveal hidden contents The fella that was shoved in the box gave them the name 'Abu Ahmed'. She corroborates this watching videos on her PC of other detainees being tortured and giving the same name . When Abu Faraj is captured (he's the fella all the victims said receives messages from Bin Laden via Ahmed) they torture him and he gives up EVERYTHING he can on a small scale...but nothing to do with Bin Laden...or Ahmed. Maya takes that as confirmation Ahmed is as important as Bin Laden. That was the first hour of the film. It's followed by a 30 second scene where some young intern turns up and says "by the way, we had this Ahmed fella's name sent to us after 9/11, but it got lost in the mountain of stuff we were looking at". There is nothing whatsoever to suggest they would have found Ahmed without torture......or that torture would be too high a price to pay in order to find him. you not know how to use them either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:30, Christmas Tree said: you not know how to use them either I was showing you. If I'd done both tags then it would not have helped you. Just do what you do with pictures but replace "img" with "spoiler". I don't think you can spoiler a film about the killing of Bin laden though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammynb 3939 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:36, Happy Face said: I don't think you can spoiler a film about the killing of Bin laden though. He's DEAD??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 On 24/01/2013 at 12:36, Happy Face said: I was showing you. If I'd done both tags then it would not have helped you. Just do what you do with pictures but replace "img" with "spoiler". I don't think you can spoiler a film about the killing of Bin laden though. "spoiler" I'll try "spoiler" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 5222 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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