Gemmill 46031 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Read what Alex posted again. Waste of time. Alex sits and types all that out and he dismisses it with "Well we did it last season". Like I say, I can't work out whether he's doing it deliberately or if he really is this thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I think he actually thinks it's quite simple but what he's actually asking for is nigh-on impossible. Basically you've got an owner who's never owned a club before with a chairman who's never worked in football before. Their stated aim is a team consistently finishing in the top 8. They're hoping to do this with more or less zero net spend, a low paid manager, a small and inexperienced backroom staff, a small squad (in terms of quality outside the first XI anyway), a small scouting network and low player wages (in relative terms). I've probably missed something there as well. So, in other words you've got two blokes with no prior experience in the game trying to achieve something that to the best of my knowledge has never been achieved in the English game. Even assuming you got a manager in who could work under those constraints and produce good results over a few seasons (not going to happen imo but anyway) then it would only be a matter of time before he went to a bigger, better job. So even if you achieved the nigh-on impossible you'd probably have to start again in 3 years or so. Absolutely spot on post this one Alex. CT you're missing the point too by just mentioning last season. Out of curiosity is your default position still pro-Ashley? Cowardly performance today, everything about it was shit but only a mug would've thought it would be any different with that line up. We have no depth at all, just none, such a shame because with a decent striker we certainly have a reasonable first eleven. Today reminded me of many games under Dalglish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Waste of time. Alex sits and types all that out and he dismisses it with "Well we did it last season". Like I say, I can't work out whether he's doing it deliberately or if he really is this thick. Yeh fair play - especially as Alex mentioned the word ''Consistently''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Absolutely spot on post this one Alex. CT you're missing the point too by just mentioning last season. Out of curiosity is your default position still pro-Ashley? Cowardly performance today, everything about it was shit but only a mug would've thought it would be any different with that line up. We have no depth at all, just none, such a shame because with a decent striker we certainly have a reasonable first eleven. Today reminded me of many games under Dalglish. That's it - and at the same time as soon as Debuchy comes in people want rid of Simpson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 CT, I know you like a bit of 80s stuff so this is dedicated to you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17654 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quite, but I'd counter it's unsustainable. Loads of sides have had one good season in the top flight on a low budget then fallen away. Coppell's Reading, Ipswich under Burley are two that spring to mind. Can you name a side that has done it consistently in your lifetime? With all the factors I mentioned that is, which would immediately rule out Arsenal under Wenger and Moyes at Everton. The only way to try to sustain it wouldve been to sell HBA and Cabaye and then re invest from there. Spurs do it regularly. Dont know if Ashley was/is thinking along these lines but its sadly the only way for the likes of us to incerease wages...bring in the 30mill for a champions league campaign from player sales and invest it carefully again. We can go for better players then and pay them more. Sadly, I think this is the only way ahead, but I dont think anyone was biting last summer. Even less likely to this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGATRON1000 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Yet they managed it last season. And yet you're calling for the head of the manager who achieved it, less than 9 months since he did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PUGATRON1000 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Either you're deliberately missing the point to wind people up, which given the circumstances makes you an arsehole. Or you genuinely can't grasp the very simple points that people have laid out for you, which makes you an idiot because this is not difficult to understand. Either way you're fucked. It's a simple formula he uses, ignore the posts that he can't answer without giving some ground, respond to the posts where he can..... or option C, play the groundsman and move the goalposts Edited January 5, 2013 by PUGATRON1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 100 % spot on PUGATRON1000. Both posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We've got some of the best players who have ever played for us, Ben Arfa is a joy to watch, Cabaye on his day is a world class midfielder. We've had Ba, Cisse on form last season scoring goals of the season. Krul, Colo, Tiote and Taylor have all performed at the highest level in the league in their positions. Anita, Marveaux and Debuchy all have enormous promise. The investment has not been enough but the assembly of these players and their obvious qualities makes comparisons with Ipswich and Reading a bit specious. Neither of those sides had 3 of France's starting 11 playing for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Thought Deschamps hated Ben Arfa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Debuchy was in there because of an injury too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22150 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I think he actually thinks it's quite simple but what he's actually asking for is nigh-on impossible. Basically you've got an owner who's never owned a club before with a chairman who's never worked in football before. Their stated aim is a team consistently finishing in the top 8. They're hoping to do this with more or less zero net spend, a low paid manager, a small and inexperienced backroom staff, a small squad (in terms of quality outside the first XI anyway), a small scouting network and low player wages (in relative terms). I've probably missed something there as well. So, in other words you've got two blokes with no prior experience in the game trying to achieve something that to the best of my knowledge has never been achieved in the English game. Even assuming you got a manager in who could work under those constraints and produce good results over a few seasons (not going to happen imo but anyway) then it would only be a matter of time before he went to a bigger, better job. So even if you achieved the nigh-on impossible you'd probably have to start again in 3 years or so. Nailed it. Calling for Pardew's head is daft. He's unlikely to be replaced by a better manager given the financial constraints imposed by the owner. And the outgoings are unlikely to change so the squad will reman wafer thin. Plus we'll have to rely on players signed on the cheap not picking up injuries to keep the likes of Nile Ranger out of the team. This is the state of play under Ashley. Last season was as good as it'll get. And we've seen how bad it can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22150 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We've got some of the best players who have ever played for us, Ben Arfa is a joy to watch, Cabaye on his day is a world class midfielder. We've had Ba, Cisse on form last season scoring goals of the season. Krul, Colo, Tiote and Taylor have all performed at the highest level in the league in their positions. Anita, Marveaux and Debuchy all have enormous promise. The investment has not been enough but the assembly of these players and their obvious qualities makes comparisons with Ipswich and Reading a bit specious. Neither of those sides had 3 of France's starting 11 playing for them. No good though when the second string aren't even championship standard though is it? It's a squad game. We have a good first team, with some quality players, but probably one of the weakest squads in terms of depth in the division. That should have been sorted in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We dont have the revenue to assemble a squad that could handle all thats been demanded of it. We needed more but if we had signed Debuchy and a Centre Back in the summer and removed any potential criticism, the squad still wouldnt have coped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 22150 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The squad will still have been too thin but we might not have found ourselves in a relegation battle if debuchy and Douglas had played the majority of the season instead of Simpson and Williamson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Yes and no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 We've got some of the best players who have ever played for us, Ben Arfa is a joy to watch, Cabaye on his day is a world class midfielder. We've had Ba, Cisse on form last season scoring goals of the season. Krul, Colo, Tiote and Taylor have all performed at the highest level in the league in their positions. Anita, Marveaux and Debuchy all have enormous promise. The investment has not been enough but the assembly of these players and their obvious qualities makes comparisons with Ipswich and Reading a bit specious. Neither of those sides had 3 of France's starting 11 playing for them. I'm sure you know that had very little to do with the point I was making, which was in relation to the budget restraints in place at the club. I just cited those two to demonstrate that doing something like finishing 5th as a one off is relatively easy to thing to achieve. In that sense, the examples I gave were pertinent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The budget constraints are determined by our revenue. There is around £20m missing from that revenue due to the board's behaviour/management and that is a big issue. I dont think they are under-spending given the revenue we have, they are forced to spend less because of missing revenue. However, they have spent that money very effectively. I would argue now, and this is a view i've taken this season, that Pardew's faith in his ability to make players perform at the top of their ability may be to blame for the lack of quality in the second tier of players in the squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35583 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The budget constraints are determined by our revenue. There is around £20m missing from that revenue due to the board's behaviour/management and that is a big issue. I dont think they are under-spending given the revenue we have, they are forced to spend less because of missing revenue. However, they have spent that money very effectively. I would argue now, and this is a view i've taken this season, that Pardew's faith in his ability to make players perform at the top of their ability may be to blame for the lack of quality in the second tier of players in the squad. I've never suggested for a moment that we haven't bought very well at times recently. But, taking into account the rest of what you say, I think you'd probably agree with my earlier point. I.e. the stated aim of finishing top 8 each season is perhaps at touch at odds with the reality behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4827 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Either you're deliberately missing the point to wind people up, which given the circumstances makes you an arsehole. Or you genuinely can't grasp the very simple points that people have laid out for you, which makes you an idiot because this is not difficult to understand. Either way you're fucked. Your routines wearing thin. Very thin. Either make a specific point or jog on. I raised and answered lots of points. You can try being specific but that's not really your thing now is it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4827 Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 We've got some of the best players who have ever played for us, Ben Arfa is a joy to watch, Cabaye on his day is a world class midfielder. We've had Ba, Cisse on form last season scoring goals of the season. Krul, Colo, Tiote and Taylor have all performed at the highest level in the league in their positions. Anita, Marveaux and Debuchy all have enormous promise. The investment has not been enough but the assembly of these players and their obvious qualities makes comparisons with Ipswich and Reading a bit specious. Neither of those sides had 3 of France's starting 11 playing for them. Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I love it when the wind up merchant gets wound up. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46031 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Your routines wearing thin. Very thin. Either make a specific point or jog on. I raised and answered lots of points. You can try being specific but that's not really your thing now is it. Stop being a cunt or stop trying to argue with people who are too clever for you. It's simple. You are doing exactly what Purgatron described. The first line btw. Boldon's answer to Clint Eastwood. The second line. Boldon's answer to Danny Dyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 46031 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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