David Kelly 1224 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 It's getting back to the old idiom on here which Chez has railed against for a few years. Luck wins, incompetence loses. you can't have it both ways though. As I don't believe in luck I have to ask why we won? We were the better team. We had the better posession, more in their third, more opportunities. We just weren't scoring from it. Ba and Cisse had both spurned a number of opportunities failing to do so much as hit the target. As the system was working (unspectacularly), it needed a change of personell rather than wholesale reshaping the team. The ONLY strike option we have on the bench is Shola. His reputation precedes him. He is unfairly maligned. He has a wealth of experience he handles the "fishbowl" with ease. He's good at putting his foot on the ball and slowing things down, he's a more physical presence for QPR to deal with than either of the other two. He CAN play for half an hour. He did the job. As I said above, I've been far from a critic of Pardew this season but I do believe in luck (whether it's luck that Shola just happened to pull of a moment of magic or whether it's Cisse being in the right place at the right time for the ball to hit his arse and deflect in) and imo we got lucky. Were we the better team? Yes of course we were but were we creating chances? I wouldn't say so. Cisse's header from Jonas's first decent cross this season would the only one I could really look too and was that better than the one Cisse had for them at the beginning of the half? I have to say I'm not sure what point you're trying to make re the formation working and not needing a complete reshaping? You're praising the substitution but saying we didn't need a complete reshape which was clearly what happened with the substitution. And I personally don't think Shola's unfairly maligned but there's not much point going over such an old argument there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Unbelievable stupidity CT, it was Shola who scored and he had all the work to do. I'm delighted Marveaux had a role to play in the goal but it was a simple pass made by Santon's run and Shola's movement. Over-playing his role in the goal to denigrate Pardew's management is about the clearest example I've seen of why people don't take you seriously. Utter bollocks man. Alan didnt see it that way either. "Marveaux just held onto that ball for half-a-second longer than maybe another player would and it created the space for Shola". Says it fucking all. (Just for clarity, no one is saying Shola didnt have a lot to do or do well either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I really can't believe anyone would praise Pardews bringing on as Shola as some sort of inspired substitution. We all know that Shola is fucking hopeless except for an odd moment of magic (usually against the makems). You can't bring him on expecting him to change a game because 90% of the time he looks like football is something entirely new to him. How many decent (not good just decent) games has he ever had for us in the last 12 years? Bringing him on was a sign of desperation because things were anything but working. Yes we weren't being threatened in the slightest but despite being camped in their half, Green was having one of the easiest games of his career. The reason there were the boos, I believe, is exactly what J69 says. People were pissed off that we had last seasons top scorer playing out of position (he really can't play there especially with only that clown Simpson to assist him on that side of the pitch). Pardew said the other day that Cisse and Ba could definitely play together yet he continued to try and force something that we just don't have the players to make work. If he wanted to change things (which of course he did and certainly should have) he could have just put our far more reliable striker up top rather than bringing on a man who's stole our money for over a decade. On this occasion he got very lucky end of story. Given how things have been going for us this season that was probably a lot more important than being good at the moment but we do need to kick on from lucky and start getting good or else we will be firmly in the shit! excellent post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44498 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 An absolutely crushing blow for DK there. Ruined his Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 That statement doesn't say it all, it just says Marveaux had a role to play in the goal. Not as significant as Shola. Your criticism of Pardew is therefore moronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 That statement doesn't say it all, it just says Marveaux had a role to play in the goal. Not as significant as Shola. Your criticism of Pardew is therefore moronic. Nice attempt. And a nice try to bring Sholas part in. Never in question. He created space by doing something that Pardew thinks no other player would have done. Which bit can't you comprehend? Just in case you wander too far off course, Pardew is getting stick off me for starting Jonas and or Perch ahead of Marveaux at home to QPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Talk about rose tinted glasses He picked a team, it didnt work. He made two subs, it didnt work. He finally included a player that most fans had been wanting on the pitch at the start of the game. Guess what, it worked. Sorry like, he gets no credit for that. What probably pisses most of the boo'ers off is that had he played Marveaux from the start, against piss poor opposition lets remember, then we would more than likely would have had the game won by half time. Instead he once again hauled off Cisse, who is getting played out of position, and is week by week stripping the lad of any confidence he has left. No this is what you said and its pretty much 100% unsubstantiated bollocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 No this is what you said and its pretty much 100% unsubstantiated bollocks. The majority of that is fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 An absolutely crushing blow for DK there. Ruined his Christmas. I'm hitting the vodkas now! My self confidence is shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The majority of that is fact The bit about Cisse is right but I never heard one person shouting for Marveaux. Quite the opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The majority of that is fact Listen Wibbly Pig, the only time you had any credibility on this forum was when your post surmounted to basically 'what chez said'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 The bit about Cisse is right but I never heard one person shouting for Marveaux. Quite the opposite in fact. Not sure what to say to that as you are usually quite switched on. Most people I talk too and most other boards you read, you will have seen a clear want for Marveaux to start against QPR. It seriously astounds me that anyone would consider Jonas or Perch a better choice than Marveaux against a team like QPR when we are crying out for creativity in the side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Listen Wibbly Pig, the only time you had any credibility on this forum was when your post surmounted to basically 'what chez said'. I think I lead and you followed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Not sure what to say to that as you are usually quite switched on. Most people I talk too and most other boards you read, you will have seen a clear want for Marveaux to start against QPR. It seriously astounds me that anyone would consider Jonas or Perch a better choice than Marveaux against a team like QPR when we are crying out for creativity in the side. I can honestly say I've not heard anyone say much positive about him except for his performance against Wigan. To me he's not a winger at all so any talk of him playing in place of Jonas is a waste of time. The only way he can offer anything to the team is playing in the middle with a fairly free role as he's too weak to play as an out and out centre mid. But to be honest I think it's a very big risk to give him that role in our current plight. More often than not he's looked well out of his depth. He's definitely improving but with key players missing and others under performing its as much of a risk as it throwing in youngsters. It doesn't help us or them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4711 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 I can honestly say I've not heard anyone say much positive about him except for his performance against Wigan. To me he's not a winger at all so any talk of him playing in place of Jonas is a waste of time. The only way he can offer anything to the team is playing in the middle with a fairly free role as he's too weak to play as an out and out centre mid. But to be honest I think it's a very big risk to give him that role in our current plight. More often than not he's looked well out of his depth. He's definitely improving but with key players missing and others under performing its as much of a risk as it throwing in youngsters. It doesn't help us or them. So you think it was better to play Perch at home against QPR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 CT man you can't simply field a team of attacking players because you'll lose the midfield battle and never see the fucking ball. Are you seriously not getting that? Marveaux hasn't shown enough to warrant a place. He was ok against 10 man Wigan ffs. He's yet to put in the kind of performances that would have anyone* calling for him to start. *anyone with an ounce of fucking sense, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1224 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 In our current state yes I certainly do. I know what you're getting at in terms of having a more attacking player on but given recent results and our low confidence, I think it was sensible to have someone playing that we knew we could rely on (even if it's only up to an average level). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14011 Posted December 24, 2012 Share Posted December 24, 2012 Perch - Ball winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 (edited) CT man you can't simply field a team of attacking players because you'll lose the midfield battle and never see the fucking ball. Are you seriously not getting that? Marveaux hasn't shown enough to warrant a place. He was ok against 10 man Wigan ffs. He's yet to put in the kind of performances that would have anyone* calling for him to start. *anyone with an ounce of fucking sense, anyway. Anita, Perch, Tiote, Jonas, thats a defensive paranoia midfield...and just because Pardew thinks we have to completely overreact defensively, doesnt mean theres no other alternative. tbh he's been running the same type of midfield through most of our games and we've played shit. soooo we take a very narrow win against the weakest team in the league, and all of the sudden this way of playing makes completely sense to you all? remember, it was creativity that made us win this game... this is fish-shit Edited December 25, 2012 by Aeris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Anita, Perch, Tiote, Jonas, thats a defensive paranoia midfield...and just because Pardew thinks we have to completely overreact defensively, it doesnt mean theres no other alternative. tbh he's been running the same type of midfield through most of our games and we've played shit. soooo we win against the weakest team in the league, and all of the sudden this way of playing makes completely sense to you all? remember it was creativity that made us win this game... this is fish-shit Morning LBT, Unsurprisingly you don't understand the point, so I'll say Merry Xmas and a Happy Go Fuck yourself too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeris 0 Posted December 25, 2012 Share Posted December 25, 2012 Morning LBT, Unsurprisingly you don't understand the point, so I'll say Merry Xmas and a Happy Go Fuck yourself too fuckin zombie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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