The Fish 10972 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 A Jewish couple would not get married in a Swastika laden, Nazi festival hall right? even if the architecture was aesthetically pleasing.. Ok, but millions of my people (pretentious wankers) have not been interned in horrific conditions... Churches are pretty and Christianity hasn't committed any atrocities against me or the people in my life, so I'm not sure of your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 The bestiality/incest ones are the best. Having said that consensual sibling incest isn't something I'd dismiss outright if nobody gets harmed. You haven't seen my sisters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Ok, but millions of my people (pretentious wankers) have not been interned in horrific conditions... Churches are pretty and Christianity hasn't committed any atrocities against me or the people in my life, so I'm not sure of your point? I was more referring to your opposition to HF's point - that Christrianity has a history of systematically surpressing homosexuality over the past 2000 years and therefore wanting to enter into an institution that has endured due to theism is ideologically perplexing. I guess the tax breaks are good though right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I was more referring to your opposition to HF's point - that Christrianity has a history of systematically surpressing homosexuality over the past 2000 years and therefore wanting to enter into an institution that has endured due to theism is ideologically perplexing. I guess the tax breaks are good though right? I wasn't opposing his view at all. I was just saying that I'd quite like to get hitched in a church because the buildings are pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Actually I have a bit of respect for vicars/priests who won't let people get married/have baptisms in their church unless they do demonstrate "faith" - I think it should mean something more than "Ooh that's a nice building, lets use it" even if it means the church turns down money. This is the other side of the get-out caluse for gay weddings - if they'd enshrined a "right" to get married where you want, people would have abused it to score what I'd call petty points. This in no way lessens my disrespect for religion but I think you can go too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) they are pretty. but if you're an atheist, and therefore are committed to a view of the world that opposes religion, you must feel some sort of conflict a/ partaking in a ritual that is fundamentally related to a monotheistic view of the world B/ has actively attempted to surpress atheism throughout its history right? one of the main arguments for atheism I hear is that Christianity is happy to wilfully and ignorantly pick and choose its favourite parts of The Bible to justify its means. however couldn't one say the same about atheists, in relation to Christianity, wanting to get married in a church? Edited February 5, 2013 by SloopJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I'm atheist but would quite like to get married in a church. They're just pretty, aren't they? Do they let atheists marry in church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 they are pretty. but if you're an atheist, and therefore are committed to a view of the world that opposes religion, you must feel some sort of conflict a/ partaking in a ritual that is fundamentally related to a monotheistic view of the world B/ has actively attempted to surpress atheism throughout its history right? one of the main arguments for atheism I hear is that Christianity is happy to wilfully and ignorantly pick and choose its favourite parts of The Bible to justify its means. however couldn't one say the same about atheists, in relation to Christianity, wanting to get married in a church? Most people fall inbetween the two positions in not being full on Christians or "strident" Atheists but either see themselves as non-practising christians or "couldn't really give a shit" povs - I think its those who think they should be able to marry ina church without it meaning anything that are wrong. Of course you can take a strong position - I said no to my best mates request to be a Godfather for his kid as I would have felt like a hypocrite - having said that I did go to my Mam's requiem mass without a shred of regret or guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Do they let atheists marry in church? Shibboleth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22011 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Do they let atheists marry in church? I was married in a catholic church. I was honest and the priest had no problems marrying me. Let's just say it was as pragmatic decision. I completely disagree with SJ and NJS on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22011 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) they are pretty. but if you're an atheist, and therefore are committed to a view of the world that opposes religion, you must feel some sort of conflict a/ partaking in a ritual that is fundamentally related to a monotheistic view of the world B/ has actively attempted to surpress atheism throughout its history right? one of the main arguments for atheism I hear is that Christianity is happy to wilfully and ignorantly pick and choose its favourite parts of The Bible to justify its means. however couldn't one say the same about atheists, in relation to Christianity, wanting to get married in a church? You misunderstand what atheism is. At its most fundamental, it is just an absence of belief. Many old churches are used for secular purposes I might add. last wedding I went to was such a case, the Oran Mor in Glasgow. I can appreciate the beauty of religious architecture without accepting the existence of God or feeling like a hypocrite. Edited February 5, 2013 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22011 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Most people fall inbetween the two positions in not being full on Christians or "strident" Atheists but either see themselves as non-practising christians or "couldn't really give a shit" povs - I think its those who think they should be able to marry ina church without it meaning anything that are wrong. Of course you can take a strong position - I said no to my best mates request to be a Godfather for his kid as I would have felt like a hypocrite - having said that I did go to my Mam's requiem mass without a shred of regret or guilt. Being a god father is not just about the christening day, its about being a substitute parent should the unthinkable happen. Unless you were unwilling to be this I think you were dead wrong in your decision. Edited February 5, 2013 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I was married in a catholic church. I was honest and the priest had no problems marrying me. Let's just say it was as pragmatic decision. I completely disagree with SJ and NJS on this matter. I can understand it from the point of making your partner happy but its still wrong on a personal level imo - you made the oaths etc based on something you believe to be false which I think is basing it on a lie (I know signing the register is the legal part btw). Also not saying it was the case but I think its wrong of your partner to "subject" you to that no matter how much okay with it you were. I just think its a bad starting point for a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Being a good father is not just about the christening day, its about being a substitute parent should the unthinkable happen. Unless you were unwilling to be this I think you were dead wrong in your decision. It's much more in catholicism - its a promise to raise the kid in the faith as well. Of course the "substitute" is just part of the godparent deal but as I said there was no way I would stand in a church making vows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) Honestly don't think the wider gay community will be that interested in getting married in churches, this is more a principle thing imo - levelling the playing field. Although some of those gothic efforts look really churchy. I did get into trouble with some gays recently who kept saying they were married - but that isn't a story for such a nice thread filled to the brim with solidarity for our brothers. Edited February 5, 2013 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22011 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) It's much more in catholicism - its a promise to raise the kid in the faith as well. Of course the "substitute" is just part of the godparent deal but as I said there was no way I would stand in a church making vows. Hmmm, well I'm a god father and I have no problem not raising the child as a catholic should the worst happen. The parents understand my oath is to the child, not the faith. Don't think they believe either tbh. Maybe I am a massive hypocrite, but honestly it doesn't remotely bother me. Why should it? Is God going to smite me, am I going to hell? Edited February 5, 2013 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 You're covered with that huge stained glass window casting a religious shadow over all your worldly antics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 22011 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 My stained glass window has become a meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Hmmm, well I'm a god father and I have no problem not raising the child as a catholic should the worst happen. The parents understand my oath is to the child, not the faith. Don't think they believe either tbh. Maybe I am a massive hypocrite, but honestly it doesn't remotely bother me. Why should it? Is God going to smite me, am I going to hell? You're obviiously only an amateur Atheist I do admit to overthinking some things - I know to most people weddings and bpatisms are just excuses for pissups but I guess its a legacy from my upbringing that they should mean something. I mean that in the sense of mean something to the people involved obviously and not an actual meaning to God (may he strike me down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 Not that interesting. One is choice and the other is sexual orientation. To be honest Dave it's got nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's about same gender marriage. Fucks me off how the press have labelled it as the 'gay marriage vote' it's the 'same sex marriage vote' and the two are not always intrinsically linked. The ignorance on display on twitter and other social media quite honestly is staggering. And the Tories can go fuck themself. Oh the irony!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) And the Tories can go fuck themself. Oh the irony!! I noticed my MP was one of those opposed - something else to bring up if I ever meet the lying sack of Tory shit. Edited February 5, 2013 by NJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10972 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 To be honest Dave it's got nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's about same gender marriage. Fucks me off how the press have labelled it as the 'gay marriage vote' it's the 'same sex marriage vote' and the two are not always intrinsically linked. The ignorance on display on twitter and other social media quite honestly is staggering. And the Tories can go fuck themself. Oh the irony!! Tell you what Craig, read what I read in response to Toonpack and have another swing at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6700 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 I wasn't having a go at you mate, I was expanding on what you were saying,... ;-) Can't wait for one of these right-wing fuckers to bite. How is this NOT a good move for this country and its supposed equal opportunities mandate? I had a vested interested in this vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 (edited) You misunderstand what atheism is. At its most fundamental, it is just an absence of belief. Many old churches are used for secular purposes I might add. last wedding I went to was such a case, the Oran Mor in Glasgow. I disagree; It's the belief that there is no god, or gods, or any higher power and in this age is usually tied up with secular humanism which is a belief system just like any other. If you had a literal absence of belief then you'd be a nihilist - like me. I can appreciate the beauty of religious architecture without accepting the existence of God or feeling like a hypocrite. But why do you find religious architecture beautiful? Edited February 5, 2013 by SloopJohn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 31228 Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 To be honest Dave it's got nothing to do with sexual orientation. It's about same gender marriage. Fucks me off how the press have labelled it as the 'gay marriage vote' it's the 'same sex marriage vote' and the two are not always intrinsically linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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