Southampton Away

[Tom 14011]

 

Tom, on 26 November 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

 

Last season when we went on our unbeaten run I'm fairly sure that our defence was the same 5 for every game. Our back 5 is all over the shop at the moment in more ways than one.

 

Never knew we played with a back 5...

Have a think and get back to me.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Not the first time I've read someone on here by cynical about Ba.

 

Is it because he's a greedy, selfish striker who wants to play in the centre? Think he's earned the right tbh.

 

Will sticking him out left in the 433 from part of last season improve things? Maybe. Don't think it'll magically sort out our issues though, and we'd need Cisse to find some form because he's been woeful this season regardless of service.

[Gejon 2]

Gone by x-mas I reckons. He's fucked up some things, the board have fucked up other things, the players are fucking up what's left to fuck up...What can I say it looks and sounds like a fuck up. On the other hand Ba might score with his ego and we nick a 0-1 at Stoke.

 

The Ba/ego thing is ridiculous. To be a prolific centre forward you need to be a self centred, greedy twat. It's very rare to find any who aren't and the very, very few who are will be the very best players to have played.

[Park Life 71]

The Ba/ego thing is ridiculous. To be a prolific centre forward you need to be a self centred, greedy twat. It's very rare to find any who aren't and the very, very few who are will be the very best players to have played.

 

He'll be at Liv in Jan.

[RobinRobin 11270]

The Ba/ego thing is ridiculous. To be a prolific centre forward you need to be a self centred, greedy twat. It's very rare to find any who aren't and the very, very few who are will be the very best players to have played.

I just wish he would trap a ball more often. He traps it further than I can kick on occasions! Having said that, we would be in all sorts of trouble without him. He does seem to get the Hollywood goals and miss the sitters though this year, bit like Cisse last year

[colinh9 0]

Quote_colinh9

Really, what would you have done differently? He has nobody pushing the first team to the limits, if anything, it's more who can I put out there that might give me a shot at winning. It's not how you should think in football, but when you have nothing to work with- what can you do?

 

Pretty imbecile to say there's nothing he could've done differently when what he was doing wasn't working at fucking all. There's always something which could work, at least securing us a draw or maybe even just given us some scoring opportunities. There was absolutely nothing happening with the way we played! So when nothing comes out of it, you say still there's nothing different he could've done? At the moment in Norway, a bottom 5 first division club just won the cup (the norwegian answer to FA cup), they had no particularly skilled players in the club, but they managed to win due to clever thinking, this is something Pardew never could've achieved.

 

See, this sort of stuff really makes me laugh. I asked, literally, for alternatives. You came up with nothing concrete relating to Newcastle. Instead, you offered a pedestrian comparison that holds no relevance whatsoever to what I said. So, in one country a team in the bottom five pulled off a cup miracle- and without any context whatsoever we are supposed to believe Pardew could have never pulled off such a feat? What an absolutely useless post by you.

[ewerk 30610]

Is there any actual evidence that Ba was throwing his toys out the pram because he wasn't playing in the centre.

 

From what I could see it was the club pushing his transfer during the summer more than he was.

[Happy Face 29]

I'm still not sure why people want to put our (and until a couple of games ago the leagues) tip scorer out on the left wing. Fair enough last year when he'd gone off the boil and cisse was on fire, but cisse couldn't hit a barn door at the moment.....in fact he couldn't get in a postion in front of the barn door with the ball at his feet.

[PaddockLad 17260]

Ba might not be creating merry hell behind the scenes, none of us can know. But him and Cisse cant play up front together, thats pretty obvious. Pardew is now struggling to find a solution to this whilst keeping both players happy. Very tricky, but thats what he's paid for. If he'd bitten the bullet and just stuck with one or the other in a 433 then he may have one of them moping a bit, but results may well have been better in the league. He's been weak on this iyam. Stevie metioned Demba must be calling the shots on this, which we'll never know, but youve got to wonder wtf is going on.

[Alex 35082]

Well he's a billionaire. I bet no billionaire has ever bought a club as big as Newcastle or bigger and spent as little as he has. FFS had his faults, but I don't care what anyone says his prime objective was to make the footballing side as good as it could possibly be. He was a magnificent chairman from 1997 to 2004, his business acumen contributing to NUFC being Europe's 8th richest club. In 2004 our wage to turnover ratio was just 45%, he never once cheapened the brand of the club, like this bastard has, and more importantly for me, he was a geordie. Definitely a case of better than devil you know.

Shepherd and the Halls would be completely useless now due to the lack of personal wealth and the availability of credit though so it's actually just as well that they sold when they did. They did it for totally selfish reasons though. Fair enough, I suppose. I actually think they were lucky to be in control when they were though because the business acumen you speak of basically amounted to them spending beyond our means and using the aforementioned cheap credit to do so. The plan wouldn't work now and they wouldn't have a plan B because that would need money putting into the club which is something they never did / couldn't really do anyway in the amounts required. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of Ashley btw as he's basically killed my love for the club to a large degree.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

That doesn't mean I'm a fan of Ashley btw as he's basically killed my love for the club to a large degree.

 

Same here, shit manager. Shit owner. Cant be excited about it until he sells up.

Started following malaga a bit recently, whats not to like. Andalusia a lovely region, Manuel Pellegrini is a canny manager, loads of skillful players allowed to keep it on the ground...

[ewerk 30610]

Same here, shit manager. Shit owner. Cant be excited about it until he sells up.

Started following malaga a bit recently, whats not to like. Andalusia a lovely region, Manuel Pellegrini is a canny manager, loads of skillful players allowed to keep it on the ground...

 

Aye, Malaga are a great example of a well run club.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Did I say they were?

Do you follow clubs because they are well-run or because they offer decent fotball?

Id rather have the sheik over Mike Fucking Ashley if thats what you are implying.

In fact, Id have the Venkys over him as well. Anyone for some chicken?...

Edited November 27, 2012 by Lake Bells tits

[Alex 35082]

You need to be a little bit more subtle sometimes.

[Gejon 2]

Don't listen to him LBT, in fact just to spite him I think you should put all your efforts into following Malaga.

[Park Life 71]

I just wish he would trap a ball more often. He traps it further than I can kick on occasions! Having said that, we would be in all sorts of trouble without him. He does seem to get the Hollywood goals and miss the sitters though this year, bit like Cisse last year

 

This pair of giddy perma-grinning clowns have almost no allround game, I also see very little fight in either of them - hence the goal hanging and wait for the clockwork long ball - neither can trap/hold up/or do fuck all with. It's tactically the most bancrupt I've seen us in the last half a dozen games or so.

However they are both top tier finishers and on their day as good as anyone in the league, but how do we feed them with the current tactics - with no wingers and no breaking midfielder and a team that sits deep?

Pards needs to change it and for the short term Ba (who seems semi-capable) has to drop off a bit to the left. It's not a long term solution cause he won't be able to do it all season (looks fucked after 70 min just doing the goal hanging bit).

[McFaul 35]

Shepherd and the Halls would be completely useless now due to the lack of personal wealth and the availability of credit though so it's actually just as well that they sold when they did. They did it for totally selfish reasons though. Fair enough, I suppose. I actually think they were lucky to be in control when they were though because the business acumen you speak of basically amounted to them spending beyond our means and using the aforementioned cheap credit to do so. The plan wouldn't work now and they wouldn't have a plan B because that would need money putting into the club which is something they never did / couldn't really do anyway in the amounts required. That doesn't mean I'm a fan of Ashley btw as he's basically killed my love for the club to a large degree.

Our turnover last season was lower than it was in 2003, who is to say with FFS in charge that we would've continued on the same financial path, certainly in terms of income, which would render the credit side as slightly irrelevant. We had the massive loan on the stadium, but that was largely the extent of the debt which Ashley whined about. What sort of arsehole buys a club without studying the debts with a fine tooth comb.

[ChezGiven 0]

The great logical-sleight-of-hand self-deception card: the problem with the debt is the new owner didnt look for it, not that the last owners built it up. What a cunt.

[Alex 35082]

Our turnover last season was lower than it was in 2003, who is to say with FFS in charge that we would've continued on the same financial path, certainly in terms of income, which would render the credit side as slightly irrelevant. We had the massive loan on the stadium, but that was largely the extent of the debt which Ashley whined about. What sort of arsehole buys a club without studying the debts with a fine tooth comb.

I'm not going to make out I'm some sort of financial expert because I'm clearly not, but turnover and profit are two different things. Not that many clubs make a profit, but you could get away with not making a profit to a larger extent pre-the crash. Also, I could see absolutely no evidence that we were going back to the CL days under the last regime which is what you would've needed to get away with their profligate spending. A lot of people like to compare Ashley to Shepherd in terms of how we did then but you also need to look at how the old regime would be doing now. The fact is they'd have had to sell sooner or later otherwise them and the club would've been absolutely cattled in my view.

[Alex 35082]

The great logical-sleight-of-hand self-deception card: the problem with the debt is the new owner didnt look for it, not that the last owners built it up. What a cunt.

Aye, Ashley was stupid in that regard but perhaps if the last owners cared about the club as much as they like to pretend they do then they'd have tipped him the wink. I don't blame them for not doing so but it shows they only cared about the money in the end.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Losing is a horrible habit as well. I know we all say 'they're pros, they should get on with it, crowd shouldn't affect them, shouldn't get nervous' etc but it does. Lose tomorrow then Monday could be really painful as impatient will set in really early and they'll overplay and overthink everything.

[Happy Face 29]

Are my sums correct?

 

The inherited debt was £110m

 

The losses for the year in the championship were £20m

 

The total current debt is £140m.

 

So (if you take relegation out of it) borrowing has increased a total of £10m since Ashley took over.... Even if Shepherd had remained in charge there is no chance on earth he could have kept borrowing so low over 5+ years (or secured the finance to borrow what we would have needed). He would have paid £10m just in interest on year one to maintain the debt he had already accrued.

 

Ashley can be criticised for footballing squad/building decisions though. His after the fact claims (once the club was up for sale) he was willing to invest £20m a year are bollocks. £20m in the summer would have seen a vastly improved performance on the field this year.

[Alex 35082]

The £20m was a bit like the end of Bullseye when they haven't scored 101 or more. I.e. the actions of a spiteful arsehole.

[McFaul 35]

Are my sums correct?

 

The inherited debt was £110m

 

The losses for the year in the championship were £20m

 

The total current debt is £140m.

 

So (if you take relegation out of it) borrowing has increased a total of £10m since Ashley took over.... Even if Shepherd had remained in charge there is no chance on earth he could have kept borrowing so low over 5+ years (or secured the finance to borrow what we would have needed). He would have paid £10m just in interest on year one to maintain the debt he had already accrued.

 

Ashley can be criticised for footballing squad/building decisions though. His after the fact claims (once the club was up for sale) he was willing to invest £20m a year are bollocks. £20m in the summer would have seen a vastly improved performance on the field this year.

I wish people would stop talking about Shepherd's debt like he fucking spent in Aspers or lost it down the settee. The VAST majority of it was the loan to rebuild the stadium. A worthy reason for getting in debt.

[Happy Face 29]

I wish people would stop talking about Shepherd's debt like he fucking spent in Aspers or lost it down the settee. The VAST majority of it was the loan to rebuild the stadium. A worthy reason for getting in debt.

 

Absolutely. The £70m debt following the rebuild in 2001 was money well spent. But the profits from increased capacity should be used to pay down that debt. 7 years later it had grown to £110m though.