Newcastle v Swansea (H) 17/11/2012

[The Fish 10661]

.... a "perfect storm" of results from other teams....

 

[Alex 34718]

i'd say a load of those will be our stellar tactic of floating them to the back post for williamson not to do anything with.

[The Fish 10661]

re: the long ball stat. It's all well and good, but Fulham and Everton are receiving a lot of praise for their performances this season and the stat doesn't account for our injury/suspension crippled midfield

[Happy Face 29]

re: the long ball stat. It's all well and good, but Fulham and Everton are receiving a lot of praise for their performances this season and the stat doesn't account for our injury/suspension crippled midfield

 

Aye, it doesn't...but then last season we averaged 67 per game...which would still have had us up top this year too.

 

Wish I could find a site with stats for off the ball movement because our entire team seem to turn to statues as soon as we're in posession. Not surprising we have to go long so often without anyone near the ball looking to make themselves available.

[The Fish 10661]

 

Aye, it doesn't...but then last season we averaged 67 per game...which would still have had us up top this year too.

 

Wish I could find a site with stats for off the ball movement because our entire team seem to turn to statues as soon as we're in posession. Not surprising we have to go long so often without anyone near the ball looking to make themselves available.

My point is that CT wasn't complaining about it last season.

 

Also that its Long Ball when it doesn't work and Direct Play when it does.

[PaddockLad 16991]

English teams have almost always in modern times played a mixture between short passing and long ball, and many have been very successful at it. Chelsea for the last decade being the latest. Arsenal under George Graham are another. Theres fuck all wrong with playing direct football with one or two flair players thrown in. I don't know why anyone would imply we played like Brazil 70 last year, it was mostly pretty far from the case.

[Happy Face 29]

My point is that CT wasn't complaining about it last season.

 

That was my thought too...but you were also saying we've resorted to it due to injury, but last season was remarkably injury free and we still averaged more punts than any other teams have this season.

[Happy Face 29]

English teams have almost always in modern times played a mixture between short passing and long ball, and many have been very successful at it. Chelsea for the last decade being the latest. Arsenal under George Graham are another. Theres fuck all wrong with playing direct football with one or two flair players thrown in. I don't know why anyone would imply we played like Brazil 70 last year, it was mostly pretty far from the case.

 

Got me wondering how the ratios look.....

 

Newcastle United 24.5%

Reading 24.5%

Stoke 23.1%

West Ham 21.3%

Aston Villa 20.6%

Norwich 20.5%

Sunderland 19.2%

West Bromwich Albion 19.0%

Everton 17.9%

Tottenham 17.9%

Queens Park Rangers 17.0%

Fulham 16.1%

Wigan 15.5%

Chelsea 13.4%

Swansea 12.8%

Liverpool 12.7%

Southampton 12.7%

Manchester United 11.6%

Manchester City 10.5%

Arsenal 9.7%

 

Which highlights Fish's point that Everton and Fulham are using long balls much more as part of an overall passing game. They're much lower as a proportion of total passes. Also that Reading, Stoke and West Ham creep further up the table, although they don't hit as many long, they do so little passing overall that they're much more reliant on the long balls.

 

It doesn't do us any favours though. Still the worst in the league.

 

Edit: 1 in 4 passses a long ball man!?

[PaddockLad 16991]

Got me wondering how the ratios look.....

 

Newcastle United 24.5%

Reading 24.5%

Stoke 23.1%

West Ham 21.3%

Aston Villa 20.6%

Norwich 20.5%

Sunderland 19.2%

West Bromwich Albion 19.0%

Everton 17.9%

Tottenham 17.9%

Queens Park Rangers 17.0%

Fulham 16.1%

Wigan 15.5%

Chelsea 13.4%

Swansea 12.8%

Liverpool 12.7%

Southampton 12.7%

Manchester United 11.6%

Manchester City 10.5%

Arsenal 9.7%

 

Which highlights Fish's point that Everton and Fulham are using long balls much more as part of an overall passing game. They're much lower as a proportion of total passes. Also that Reading, Stoke and West Ham creep further up the table, although they don't hit as many long, they do so little passing overall that they're much more reliant on the long balls.

 

It doesn't do us any favours though. Still the worst in the league.

 

The same could definetly be said about us last season. And did anyone think that when we had good performances we were poor to watch? When you've got Demba, its tempting and look at the goals he scored up till January last year. He fuckin destroyed manu on his own virtually (bit of help from an unusually active Shola ) Theres nothing wrong with playing that way...seemingly only when you're winning though.

[Alex 34718]

Even against Man Utd at home, which was obviously a good performance, we played a very direct game with Ryan Taylor on the right and no HBA.

 

Good analysis here: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/01/05/newcastle-united-tactics/

Edited November 19, 2012 by Alex

[David Kelly 1217]

Aye, it doesn't...but then last season we averaged 67 per game...which would still have had us up top this year too.

 

Wish I could find a site with stats for off the ball movement because our entire team seem to turn to statues as soon as we're in posession. Not surprising we have to go long so often without anyone near the ball looking to make themselves available.

Our movement is shambolic this season like and I believe you have to question what's going on in training. You would think we would be working on attacking as a team and passing and moving. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case at all. In fact you have to wonder what we do work on as we seem to have gone from looking like the fittest team in the league last season to looking like we are incapable of living with the opposition and our defense was a mess as well on Saturday.

 

Slightly off topic, I saw Dabizas in the town on Saturday night and he still looked like he would be physically capable of playing now which I think would be totally preferable to ever seeing Williamson play again!

[donaldstott 0]

Our movement is shambolic this season like and I believe you have to question what's going on in training. You would think we would be working on attacking as a team and passing and moving. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be the case at all. In fact you have to wonder what we do work on as we seem to have gone from looking like the fittest team in the league last season to looking like we are incapable of living with the opposition and our defense was a mess as well on Saturday.

 

Slightly off topic, I saw Dabizas in the town on Saturday night and he still looked like he would be physically capable of playing now which I think would be totally preferable to ever seeing Williamson play again!

 

We are suffering from a lack of training is how I see it. We had practically no midweek games to contend with last season and loads this season.

 

It's fine if you are winning games, switching up the squad and playing with confidence, but doesn't help if you are struggling for form and have selection problems.

 

Re: Dabizas, you've got rose coloured glasses, he was very ordinary.

[Happy Face 29]

Slightly off topic, I saw Dabizas in the town on Saturday night and he still looked like he would be physically capable of playing now which I think would be totally preferable to ever seeing Williamson play again!

 

I promise this is the last statistics post I do...but as you mention him (and I agree with you) I was shocked to see he's one of the 2 best centre backs in the league according to the Premier League best 11 on this site (scroll to the bottom)...

 

http://www.whoscored...-Premier-League

 

To see all of his mistakes play out in front of you is hugely frustrating, but he must be the epitome of a 'moneyball' type player that Ashley wants more of. Despite his clangers that may or may not cost us on occasion he wins more offsides than any of our other players, has made more clearances than any of our other players and has won more aerial duels than any of our other players.

[David Kelly 1217]

We are suffering from a lack of training is how I see it. We had practically no midweek games to contend with last season and loads this season.

 

It's fine if you are winning games, switching up the squad and playing with confidence, but doesn't help if you are struggling for form and have selection problems.

 

Re: Dabizas, you've got rose coloured glasses, he was very ordinary.

I never said he was anything other (although he did have certain qualities which made him look quite good at times when playing alongside a more intelligent footballer). I'm just saying that Williamson is dog shit!

[David Kelly 1217]

I promise this is the last statistics post I do...but as you mention him (and I agree with you) I was shocked to see he's one of the 2 best centre backs in the league according to the Premier League best 11 on this site (scroll to the bottom)...

 

http://www.whoscored...-Premier-League

 

To see all of his mistakes play out in front of you is hugely frustrating, but he must be the epitome of a 'moneyball' type player that Ashley wants more of. Despite his clangers that may or may not cost us on occasion he wins more offsides than any of our other players, has made more clearances than any of our other players and has won more aerial duels than any of our other players.

Fuck me, stats really can be brought up to show anything!

[Christmas Tree 4669]

The same could definetly be said about us last season. And did anyone think that when we had good performances we were poor to watch? When you've got Demba, its tempting and look at the goals he scored up till January last year. He fuckin destroyed manu on his own virtually (bit of help from an unusually active Shola ) Theres nothing wrong with playing that way...seemingly only when you're winning though.

 

Surely as it should be. In the same way Swansea play fancy stuff that (usually ) gets them nowhere.

 

Also its never quite that straightforward. Playing a long ball game and going a few goals up puts the other team on the back foot and has them chasing the game. In these situations we can dominate more, pass it about and then break on the counter if need be. Thats a totally different game to playing the long ball game and not winning.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Our movement is shambolic this season like and I believe you have to question what's going on in training.

 

You really dont as Ive been telling anyone who wouldnt listen all season long what the problem was.

 

Jonas played / was asked to play a very defensive position which left no creativity down the left. This made us always rely on a hoofed ball or HBA magic meaning there was very little for the midfield to do as the ball either sailed over their heads or they were left wondering what HBA would do with it. The same for the strikers.

 

Strikers didnt know when the ball was going to come in and midfield wasnt linking up with strikers.

 

Having a danger coming down both flanks makes there defence have to cover both flanks and the middle rather than just having to stick 3 players on Ben Arfa.

 

Making their defenders cover all scenarios opens up the middle allowing the midfield more control and able to join in better.

 

As confirmed by Williamson today, we have now been "found out" and are quite easy to plan against.

[Tooj 17]

I thought we'd be fine if Jonas wasn't playing and Shane was instead though.

[Happy Face 29]

You really dont as Ive been telling anyone who wouldnt listen all season long what the problem was.

 

Jonas played / was asked to play a very defensive position which left no creativity down the left. This made us always rely on a hoofed ball or HBA magic meaning there was very little for the midfield to do as the ball either sailed over their heads or they were left wondering what HBA would do with it. The same for the strikers.

 

Strikers didnt know when the ball was going to come in and midfield wasnt linking up with strikers.

 

Having a danger coming down both flanks makes there defence have to cover both flanks and the middle rather than just having to stick 3 players on Ben Arfa.

 

Making their defenders cover all scenarios opens up the middle allowing the midfield more control and able to join in better.

 

As confirmed by Williamson today, we have now been "found out" and are quite easy to plan against.

 

Could maybe agree with some of that if Tiote hadn't had seen more of the ball than any other player last year, followed by Cabaye, and if HBA hadn't played less than half the games, and if Cabaye hadn't been our biggest assist provider from behind the front 2.

 

Hardly tells a tale of direct football over the top of midfield or through HBA.

[Tooj 17]

[aimaad22 4082]

Aye, it doesn't...but then last season we averaged 67 per game...which would still have had us up top this year too.

 

Wish I could find a site with stats for off the ball movement because our entire team seem to turn to statues as soon as we're in posession. Not surprising we have to go long so often without anyone near the ball looking to make themselves available.

 

Aye! Might have something to do with the fact half of them are very uncomfortable on the ball so dont want anything to do with it. Always thought that people who enjoy having the ball and have the capability of holding onto it are priceless.

[PaddockLad 16991]

Surely as it should be. In the same way Swansea play fancy stuff that (usually ) gets them nowhere.

 

Also its never quite that straightforward. Playing a long ball game and going a few goals up puts the other team on the back foot and has them chasing the game. In these situations we can dominate more, pass it about and then break on the counter if need be. Thats a totally different game to playing the long ball game and not winning.

 

Thats what some are saying though CT...you personally cant have it both ways, love eberything about the club last season then "everythings shit" this season when the reality not a lot has changed. I don't think its as bad as people are painting. We created enough to get something from the last two games. Mind, I cant disagree too much, we're shite to watch atm. Movement was an issue last season too, its just that everything that Cisse and Ba hit went in.

 

I thought we'd be fine if Jonas wasn't playing and Shane was instead though.

 

hmmm...that one also needs a bit of work CT

Edited November 19, 2012 by PaddockLad

[Happy Face 29]

Aye! Might have something to do with the fact half of them are very uncomfortable on the ball so dont want anything to do with it. Always thought that people who enjoy having the ball and have the capability of holding onto it are priceless.

 

The moment that summed us up was in the first half where Tiote won the ball on the edge of the box and straight away he had 3 Swansea players on him. He didn't give a fuck. He took a couple of steps, did a few pivots, kept close control of the ball, fought them off with strength, looked up and saw Williamson was available and laid it off. Williamson didn't even take a second to look up. He turned 180 degrees and hit back at Krul who had no option but to hoof the fucker. You could see on Tiote's face a look of utter bewilderment as to why the fuck he had bothered. He had a pop at Williamson for it too.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

I thought we'd be fine if Jonas wasn't playing and Shane was instead though.

 

Well according to those who were there we played a lot better. I think though its all a bit late and we now find ourselves stuck in a rut. In this position the only thing thats going to help is a win. The problem is however as each game goes by, Pardew will instinctively go more and more defensive.

 

Personally I would like to see a complete re-think for Southampton with the emphasis on attack.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Could maybe agree with some of that if Tiote hadn't had seen more of the ball than any other player last year, followed by Cabaye, and if HBA hadn't played less than half the games, and if Cabaye hadn't been our biggest assist provider from behind the front 2.

 

Hardly tells a tale of direct football over the top of midfield or through HBA.

 

Confused what you mean tbh.