Solar roof panels..

[wolfy 12]

Now I don't give a fuck what anyone decides to make of that. That's what I do but anyone can decide for themselves.

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

I fucking well hope you don't repair anything electrical

[wolfy 12]

nope i actually asked you multiple times and you chickened out of it like you have again there and made some pitiful attempt at deflection, and you were asked many many times before you made 2k posts worth of nonsense.

I don't need to get you, you've made a fool of yourself, the mod buttons serve a purpose for me in the sense i hate idiots, i'll tolerate them to a point but once they get realllllllllly repetitive like you have it gets tiresome and no one wants to read the same shite over and over going nowhere, so i'll end it, and you're quickly meeting that point for me.

 

Debating with a nuclear engineer when you're a pastry chef makes you an ignorant shit for instance, when they took the time to explain the workings to you and you question it with no foundation with some ridiculous reason like "well because you haven't seen inside it".

It's the like Meenzer translating something for you and then you saying "you're lying because i don't know German!".

 

 

Anyone that's me done with you, if i open it up a thread for a read in the future and you're pulling the same monotonous shite, then i'll push a mod button because i'm an impatient fucker and that gets on my tits.

either back things up properly or just fuck up, not doing the later is the equiv to spam.

 

Even Dadoon was pleasant when he posted stats.

If that's your game, then I'm asking you right now to delete my account. I'm not into allowing you to play fucking games with me shit bag, just get on with it.

You're a weak coward and I'm not the type to walk on fucking egg shells just so some prick like you won;t press a button.

 

Get on with it you weak man.

[wolfy 12]

sure just log out Mr Willpower and not log back in

 

lasted less than 6 hours with that threat, gwan try for 12

For your information dick head, you stuck a post moderation on me that was 24 hours, meaning I couldn't post on the forum until it was allowed by you.

I came back on to see if you had it still in force and you didn't.

Now just delete my account or do I have to send an email?

 

I'm done with your games.

[Kid Dynamite 7025]

Dont delete his account. We have enough dickheads pretending to be other people on here as it is

[wolfy 12]

Dont delete his account. We have enough dickheads pretending to be other people on here as it is

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to suss me out if I did come on with another name, plus the admin have my IP address so it's easily checked.

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

It's a long and Rocky Road running this place, eh Ant?

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

Btw, Wolfy, don't be daft man.

Have a night off, drink the wife, shag a beer, come back calm and mental tomorrow

[wolfy 12]

it said 24 hours, it actually lasted less than 15mins you asked for an account to be deleted with the intention to never post again, so really you'd no need to "test" or log back in or come back to view it at all, other than the fact you have no willpower and like the attention.

 

Just log out wolfy top right corner

 

Btw, Wolfy, don't be daft man.

Have a night off, drink the wife, shag a beer, come back calm and mental tomorrow

I'm calm, I have no issues with this forum in general.

 

Like I said, I can hold my own but I can't against the threat of someone like Ant deciding when and what I can post.

I'd rather have my account deleted by asking for it than for Ant to just decide to do it when he's on his rag.

Edited November 10, 2012 by wolfy

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

I'm sure you hold your own regularly, what's that got to do with it?

[wolfy 12]

I'm sure you hold your own regularly, what's that got to do with it?

Just letting you know that I'm regular but winter can be challenging with the holding .

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

No thanks needed

[wolfy 12]

No thanks needed

I'm hung like a gnat so the gloves would make the holding impossible and embarrassing.

[CTurk 0]

And you are an expert I suppose eh?

 

Why are you avoiding the issue? Either you can explain what kind of diagram you would understand, or you can't. Either you can explain what would happen if you connect two generators together, or you can't. No amount of silly answers is going to cover up what you apparently cannot do, while expecting people to believe you understand anything about electricity (or rather, you know enough about solar power to be able to call it a complete con).

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

I'm hung like a gnat so the gloves would make the holding impossible and embarrassing.

[wolfy 12]

Why are you avoiding the issue? Either you can explain what kind of diagram you would understand, or you can't. Either you can explain what would happen if you connect two generators together, or you can't. No amount of silly answers is going to cover up what you apparently cannot do, while expecting people to believe you understand anything about electricity (or rather, you know enough about solar power to be able to call it a complete con).

I never said I knew about solar power and called it a con, so get your facts straight Rocky.

 

I said, I'd like to know how it's supposed to go back to the grid ( jump in any time and fucking delete Ant as I'm being repetitive), I then said I think there's some kind of SCAM going on about how this happens. I didn't say solar power itself was a con, Rocky.

[wolfy 12]

That's more like it.

[Monkeys Fist 42414]

 

 

Why are you avoiding the issue? Either you can explain what kind of diagram you would understand, or you can't. Either you can explain what would happen if you connect two generators together, or you can't. No amount of silly answers is going to cover up what you apparently cannot do, while expecting people to believe you understand anything about electricity (or rather, you know enough about solar power to be able to call it a complete con).

Hi Rocky

[topcat 0]

good for you wolfy - remember that's an aussie diagram and you'll need to factor in the coreolis effect to the wiring

[PaddockLad 17248]

I know am going to regret getting involved in this....I've had a hunt around the interweb and there really isnt anything that truly explains the technical theory behind it... Whether Wolfy chooses to accept it or not, this is how a basic AC circuit with a dual feed works from what I can remember from college, a quarter of a century ago!

 

The best technical way I can explain it is that the voltage and current in an AC circuit is in a waveform i.e. they alternate up and down (hence ALTERNATING CURRENT). The surlpus is fed back into the grid "out of step" with the supply wave. This is acheived by the electronics in the inverter.So the surlplus waveform is out of step with the incoming wave, i.e. the surplus sine wave sits in between the peaks and troughs of the incoming supply wave . Thats how electricity in AC circuits can travel in different directions, as it would appear Wolfy does acknowlege. The current (the electrons) is moved by the force (the cirucit voltage) and its in effect the voltage that can go either way, it carries the current with it.

 

The surplus exiting back to the grid is metered seperately BUT in the same meter enclosure (two sets of current tranformers in the metering would do this, one for each waveform, but they would feed only one "display", hence the meter "going backwards") before it is returned to the grid so a value can be put on it for both the consumer and the supply company. This is how in the UK you can use the supply company's cable to export surplus energy back into the grid....as far as I can make out...

 

The thing about all this is, at the start of the thread about nuclear power Wolfy didnt beleive me when I said I'd seen lads machining solid lumps of Plutonium on huge lathes when I worked at AWE Aldermaston as a sparky so as I said at the start I don't expect him to beleive a word of this

 

 

 

 

 

Grid tie (also known as grid-intertied or utility-interactive) systems are intended to operate in parallel with an electric utility.

 

 

 

 

Here is how they work. At night or during inclement weather all the electricity is supplied by the mains. During the daylight hours, the system generates some power, offsetting the consumption of electricity from the utility and cutting electric bills. The balance of the kWh required by your loads is automatically drawn from the input lines. If the PV panels are producing more electricity than you are using, the system will feed the surplus of the energy back to the utility. It may even spin your electric meter backwards, further reducing your monthly bill.

Such configuration is the most common, simplest and less expensive than other types of grid-interactive residential PV setups. Currently, an average net cost of an installed batteryless on-grid PV generators for homes is under $7 per watt. For homeowners a large portion of this cost may be offset by various credits and rebates. The main disadvantage of such systems is that normally they do not provide any back-up power during blackouts even if sun is shining and the PV array is producing enough energy. For a backup you need to use a battery-based systems with special inverters.

 

 

Heres the link with the yank circuit system on it, which is different to ours; the supply characteristics on this drawing appear to be 2 phase (L1 & L2) with a separate neutral, which is tied down to earth at a point between the meter and the main isolating switch for the property (usually a copper earth rod) In the UK we usually use a combined Neutral and Earth conductor which is wrapped in a copper "armour" around the one single phase live conductor. The neutral and earth are both tied down to earth at the supply comapany's generator and are only split into seperate neutral and earth conductors at the consumers side of the supply company's fuse, situated beside the meter in most domestic dwellings. Non of this makes a blind bit of difference when exporting energy back into the grid though.

 

http://solar.smps.us/grid-tied.html

 

An sure somone with more thorough knowlegde of how electricity behaves in AC circuits may come along and put me right on a few things but this is how it seems to me.

Edited November 11, 2012 by PaddockLad

[JawD 99]

I'm no sparky but like most have a basic understanding. As I said earlier, I have two meters now one counts what I use and one what I produce. They are both in my outside box.

 

Also, just checked my online statement from E.On and it shows a 26% annual reduction in electricity use since last year (got my PVs in Feb).

[wolfy 12]

I know am going to regret getting involved in this....I've had a hunt around the interweb and there really isnt anything that truly explains the technical theory behind it... Whether Wolfy chooses to accept it or not, this is how a basic AC circuit with a dual feed works from what I can remember from college, a quarter of a century ago!

 

The best technical way I can explain it is that the voltage and current in an AC circuit is in a waveform i.e. they alternate up and down (hence ALTERNATING CURRENT). The surlpus is fed back into the grid "out of step" with the supply wave. This is acheived by the electronics in the inverter.So the surlplus waveform is out of step with the incoming wave, i.e. the surplus sine wave sits in between the peaks and troughs of the incoming supply wave . Thats how electricity in AC circuits can travel in different directions, as it would appear Wolfy does acknowlege. The current (the electrons) is moved by the force (the cirucit voltage) and its in effect the voltage that can go either way, it carries the current with it.

 

The surplus exiting back to the grid is metered seperately BUT in the same meter enclosure (two sets of current tranformers in the metering would do this, one for each waveform, but they would feed only one "display", hence the meter "going backwards") before it is returned to the grid so a value can be put on it for both the consumer and the supply company. This is how in the UK you can use the supply company's cable to export surplus energy back into the grid....as far as I can make out...

 

The thing about all this is, at the start of the thread about nuclear power Wolfy didnt beleive me when I said I'd seen lads machining solid lumps of Plutonium on huge lathes when I worked at AWE Aldermaston as a sparky so as I said at the start I don't expect him to beleive a word of this

 

 

 

 

 

Grid tie (also known as grid-intertied or utility-interactive) systems are intended to operate in parallel with an electric utility.

 

 

 

 

Here is how they work. At night or during inclement weather all the electricity is supplied by the mains. During the daylight hours, the system generates some power, offsetting the consumption of electricity from the utility and cutting electric bills. The balance of the kWh required by your loads is automatically drawn from the input lines. If the PV panels are producing more electricity than you are using, the system will feed the surplus of the energy back to the utility. It may even spin your electric meter backwards, further reducing your monthly bill.

Such configuration is the most common, simplest and less expensive than other types of grid-interactive residential PV setups. Currently, an average net cost of an installed batteryless on-grid PV generators for homes is under $7 per watt. For homeowners a large portion of this cost may be offset by various credits and rebates. The main disadvantage of such systems is that normally they do not provide any back-up power during blackouts even if sun is shining and the PV array is producing enough energy. For a backup you need to use a battery-based systems with special inverters.

 

 

Heres the link with the yank circuit system on it, which is different to ours; the supply characteristics on this drawing appear to be 2 phase (L1 & L2) with a separate neutral, which is tied down to earth at a point between the meter and the main isolating switch for the property (usually a copper earth rod) In the UK we usually use a combined Neutral and Earth conductor which is wrapped in a copper "armour" around the one single phase live conductor. The neutral and earth are both tied down to earth at the supply comapany's generator and are only split into seperate neutral and earth conductors at the consumers side of the supply company's fuse, situated beside the meter in most domestic dwellings. Non of this makes a blind bit of difference when exporting energy back into the grid though.

 

http://solar.smps.us/grid-tied.html

 

An sure somone with more thorough knowlegde of how electricity behaves in AC circuits may come along and put me right on a few things but this is how it seems to me.

Well at least you took the time out to have a look through it, so cheers for that.

I can understand how the concept is supposed to work in what you have stated but as you say, it's not a cut and dried easy thing for anyone to really understand is it, hence the reason why I asked in the first place , only to have a good few other posters telling me I know nothing and they are experts without giving any answers, which is all I asked.

 

You have submitted an answer and I can't dismiss it as I genuinely do not know for sure how it's all supposed to work, yet the diagram on the site I put up yesterday...that seems to satisfy me with it having a separate meter and cable going back out to the grid meaning one meter bill can be offset by another.

 

As for you seeing people machining plutonium, I wasn't saying you didn't see it, I was saying that what they are machining could be anything told to them.

For instance, I could open a workshop employing people to machine lumps of metal and telling them that although it looks like a lead like metal, it's actually Plutonium and they would be machining it under that knowledge.

 

It's extremely possible that many people on this Earth are manufacturing and machining products and not having a clue as to what they are actually really manufacturing.

A need to know basis, or, told they are working with some element which is nothing of the sort.

 

All I was saying was, it's possible people are being duped into believing what they do is crucial to an industry that could be nothing what they believe it to be, other than what they are told.

[wolfy 12]

I'm no sparky but like most have a basic understanding. As I said earlier, I have two meters now one counts what I use and one what I produce. They are both in my outside box.

 

Also, just checked my online statement from E.On and it shows a 26% annual reduction in electricity use since last year (got my PVs in Feb).

There you go, two outside meters, which makes perfect sense than one meter being toyed with between solar and incoming grid power.

 

On the diagram I put up, it has two cables (arrowed), one coming from the grid (your household supply cable) and one going to the grid, ( your solar power cable via meter)

 

That to me makes perfect sense.

Can you recall if the company ran a separate cable from your house to to your nearest sub station, if so, then that would sum it up for me in how it works.

[JawD 99]

There you go, two outside meters, which makes perfect sense than one meter being toyed with between solar and incoming grid power.

 

On the diagram I put up, it has two cables (arrowed), one coming from the grid (your household supply cable) and one going to the grid, ( your solar power cable via meter)

 

That to me makes perfect sense.

Can you recall if the company ran a separate cable from your house to to your nearest sub station, if so, then that would sum it up for me in how it works.

 

No.

 

If you read my post a bit back I said I had two meters. 100% there is only one cable from my house and the reason that is only needed is explained above. The one basic thing to understand about electricity is that it is quite clever in that it flows the easiest route. Think of a car and it alt. It runs to generate electricity and recharge your battery. The battery has a - and + cable. Think of any rechargeable battery, it just works backwards using a secondary cell.

 

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grid_tie_inverter

 

Inverters take DC power and invert it to AC power so it can be fed into the electric utility company grid. The grid tie inverter must synchronize its frequency with that of the grid (e.g. 50 or 60 Hz) using a local oscillator and limit the voltage to no higher than the grid voltage. A high-quality modern GTI has a fixed unity power factor, which means its output voltage and current are perfectly lined up, and its phase angle is within 1 degree of the AC power grid. The inverter has an on-board computer which will sense the current AC grid waveform, and output a voltage to correspond with the grid.

Grid-tie inverters are also designed to quickly disconnect from the grid if the utility grid goes down. This is an NEC requirement[citation needed] that ensures that in the event of a blackout, the grid tie inverter will shut down to prevent the energy it produces from harming any line workers who are sent to fix the power grid.

Properly configured, a grid tie inverter enables a home owner to use an alternative power generation system like solar or wind power without extensive rewiring and without batteries. If the alternative power being produced is insufficient, the deficit will be sourced from the electricity grid.

 

also I thought this guy made a good answer on another forum:

 

I just joined and looks like I was lucky enough to find a question I know quite a bit about. I'm an electrical engineer in power transmission (Very High Voltage Power) , which is technically not the industry that deals with home PV installations but I know enough about the general concepts. As the other poster said, the power on your grid is in AC. This is basically because it's easier and more efficient to transform AC voltages. But to specifically answer your question, the power your house creates won't be going very far anyway. It will most likely just be powering next door's plasma tv. From the point of view of distributers (Lower Voltage Utilities), home PV solar is seen as just reducing the combined load of say your street or neighbourhood. This is actually in a lot of ways the purpose of these home PV initiatives from the government. They reduce peak load at critical times (PVs create more power on hot days when you are using your air con). Since networks are designed for peak loads and not average loads, this allows governments/utilities to delay major improvements to the network. But it is a very expensive quick fix and i digress.

In AC, current flows back and forwards equally (50 times a second in my country) so the electrons realistically go nowhere. So you need to picture power "flowing" through the lines rather than current (like you would with a DC circuit). It's true, there are physical limitations but you don't really need much current to allow power to flow through the transformers you wrote about. They are designed to operate under low currents. The only restriction is the magnetising current of the transformer, not really the voltage (even though voltage and current are essentially two sides to the same coin). This is typically very small and I think I'm going into too much detail anyway

So, the only thing the inverter needs to do is to create an AC voltage from the DC voltage from your PV cells. This AC voltage need to be at the normal level (my country has 240V) at the same frequency and phase as the network. Once it has done that, the power that your PV setup creates can flow into the network (the current will vary depending on the amount of power) and into your neighbour's tv.

[PaddockLad 17248]

There you go, two outside meters, which makes perfect sense than one meter being toyed with between solar and incoming grid power.

 

On the diagram I put up, it has two cables (arrowed), one coming from the grid (your household supply cable) and one going to the grid, ( your solar power cable via meter)

 

That to me makes perfect sense.

Can you recall if the company ran a separate cable from your house to to your nearest sub station, if so, then that would sum it up for me in how it works.

I knew you wouldn't take my word for it...have a look at the circuit diagram I put up, that one you're on about is just an indicative schematic representation of what happens, its certainly not an circuit or wiring diagram. In the yank model the cables from the inverter and the cables from the consumers distribution point are joined together before they get to the meter/s. That's how the surplus gets back into the grid, you don't need 2 cables.