Liverpool (a) 04/11/2012

[The Fish 10856]

Liverpool (a) 04/11/2012

 

Views from the peeps on RAWK

 

Who do you think should've replaced Dalglish?...and would you agree that, in view of Fenway Sports employment of Billy Beane at Boston Red Sox and the whole "Moneyball" thing that brings with it, the perfect appointment for them would have been our own Alan Pardew, as that's the very system he's been working under at NUFC.

Prof

- Rafa should never have been sacked. He should have replaced Hodgson. He should have replaced Kenny. In a scenario where Rafa couldn't be appointed, Kenny and Rodgers were the right appointments at the right times. I don't think Pardew would ever have been considered. Performing well with NUFC is a long way from making us dream. The whole moneyball thing is overstated.

Stewill007

- Rafa would have been my first option, but then again should you go back? Thats the question. Now we have Rodgers, we back him for the long term, we can't keep chopping and changing, we don't have the funds or the backing to do this every other season. Moneyball for me is about the whole background team not just the manager, so whoever came in would probably have to work with it to an extent.

Royhendo -

I wanted them to keep Dalglish. But when Dalglish went, I said at the time I wanted them to hire Brendan Rodgers. As for Pardew, I'm not sure he's solely responsible for your recent fortunes in the transfer market, or if that approach is actually 'Moneyball', in the sense described in the book.

As LFC have stated their intention is to remain and redevelop Anfield for the forseeable future, are you disappointed or relieved?

 

Scatman - Delighted, it's also a very good move in terms of financial viability, one of the lads on here has gone to great lengths to show how.

Jason_king - Neither. After years of false dawns I just want something to happen that moves us forward, Im blaise towards it until I see this fictitious "spade in the ground"

Willo - Dissapointed, I wanted to move on, I wanted a lovely new modern stadium but hey ho it's not to be

Lads, what happened to Enrique? He was a brilliant leftback, but now looks a shadow of his former self? Ditto Reina

 

Big Red Ritchie -

Enrique: At Liverpool, we've seen far too many players in recent years, who've impressed for the first six months or season, then gone off the boil. In Enrique's case, It could just be a loss of form, or it could be that he thinks he's made it! No disrespect to Newcastle, but I've seen numerous players come herer who after only a short time go completely cr@p as they think they've 'made it' in the big time, and somehow feel like they no longer have to try as hard. Conversely, you can spot the true professionals, as they tend to not let their game drop, no matter where they go or who they play for. Some of Enrique's performances over the last twelve months have been both baffling and shocking in equal measure, and I'm only hoping it's a dip in form and nothing more fundamental.

Reina: In the case of Pepe, I personally feel that his dip in form over the last twelve months is more to do with the revolving door process of different goalkeeping coaches under four different managers in a little over three years. A lack of a coherent continuity has seen him lose on pitch concentration and struggling under differeing systems of play. The other factor for his lack of concentration and blunders is also a lack of competition for the shirt.

Although we've had some decent quality understudies, none have really been up to Pepe's level, and therefore pushed him to raise his game.Four golden gloves in five seasons, and then all of a sudden he turns to careless hands? Sorry, that has more to do with the chopping and changing of the back four in front of him, and the chopping and changing of the training regime, for me. He needs the continuity of his coaching, and the continuity of personell and system in front of him, to get the best out of him every week.

The 5th Benitle -

Good question on Jose. I think he's struggled this season with injury and also the new 'philosophy'. Excellent defender but limited going forward. I've never been totally sold on him to be honest. Pepe? I honestly think he misses Xavi Valero as coach.

arhie - Had a reasonable game the other day. Lost a bit of fitness and confidence but still a valuable member of the squad. Hopefully he can get back to where he was when he arrived.

Willo -

Enrique? The Liverpool effect, the amount of decent players who've come here and turned into sh!theads is astonishing, I bet if Carroll went to Tottenham in January instead of us he'd be some sort of monster right now, I swear we're cursed, Reina has been awesome for us since he signed, he's going threw a sticky patch but he will be back to his usual self in no time I'm sure.

 

Looks like the tide of public opinion is turning on Brendan Rodgers; is he the man for Liverpool or will he be gone by January as the rumours suggest?

 

Thog -

I haven't heard of these rumours myself. For me, he is the man for Liverpool. I think his tactical knowledge is top drawer, and he seems to understand Liverpool, unlike say Hodgson. He says all the right things which is probably keeping us sweet but it's impressing me for now. The league position doesn't reflect the way we have played this season. FSG didn't back him as well as they could have and it will take a few transfer windows before we see a proper Rodgers side with technically excellent players all around the pitch and the system fully implemented. No, pass and move isn't something new to Liverpool but it's far more than that. Type up "Rodgers' zones" to prove that. The lack of quality squad depth is hurting aswell, as we found out last night vs Swansea. They outclassed us in all fairness but you could see the effect Rodgers had on that team. It took him a bit of time to do it there aswell. I'm not aspiring to be the next Swansea as we have higher ambitions and we are a bigger club with no disrespect but it's obviously the blueprint for Rodgers. I'm realistic, we aren't as good as we once were for many reasons so to turn it around won't be easy for any manager.

FernandoSusoLFC -

I believe Rodgers has us playing football that we all miss as we first witnessed such brilliance under Rafa. Rafa made us tick but in recent years we had Hodgson long ball and Kenny. Rodgers is here for the long run.

Willo -

He needs to stop talking the talk and start walking the walk, he runs his mouth and says what he's going to do but so far we've made no improvements in terms of results on the pitch, he goes on about his philosophy a bit too much for my liking if I'm honest an all, the way he goes on you'd think he was ripping up the foundations of football and trying something that's never been seen before, his philosophy is passing the ball, a lot. That's it. I like him though, he seems to 'get us' and he has my support for a few seasons at least.

KerryKop -

Not sure if you're correct in your point about public opinion. Anyone I know and the majority of people on this forum are very much supportive of the manager

Papers have Suarez on the back pages a lot, however it's more-often the bad side of his character that draws attention. Not getting into the racism debate again, but what of his other antics? The diving and the fouling; is it just part of his game that you have to accept in order to get the brilliance? (I'm aware there are other dirty players and other diving players, I'm specifically asking how Liverpool fans feel about the negative side of Suarez' game)

 

RichardM

- It's something that you have to live with as a Liverpool fan. But as long as it doesn't bother Luis, it doesn't bother me. He seems to be motivated by it and as a result I tend to just ignore the bad press he gets. From everything I've heard he's a nice guy off the pitch, it's just his unrivalled will to win that sometimes gets him into trouble!

G8S7 -

Haters gonna hate, he is our best player and we love him.

WhatWhale -

The diving, although it's been, in my mind, blown way out of proportion (there's a big difference between accentuating a foul, which umpteen players in every league world-wide do, and "diving," which I think as far as Luis is concerned, there are only a handful of actual instances of), is troubling. He should not manufacture a foul, no matter what. It's the negative side of his game and I'd like to see it stop, and I hope BR promotes a culture that forbids it. The fouling I don't see as an issue for Luis any more than any other player, as I say.

Willo -

He does dive and it pisses me off when some of our fans deny it, he's a dirty c*nt and i can see why people hate him, I'm sure if he played for another team we'd hate him but he doesn't... And whilst he wears our colours I love him, our best player by a mile and we're blessed to have him.

 

Um, "Being: Liverpool". Did you watch it and what did you think of it? And who do you think have their names in the "Brenvelopes"?

 

Studog -

I enjoyed it. I thought seeing a little into the club (albeit parts where a little staged!) was insightful. The brenvelopes will be a psychological thing I think.

Not Too Xabi -

Brenvelopes!! That really made me chuckle. Thought the series was a mixed bag really. It was clearly aimed at the emerging American and Far East markets, and in that respect I thought it was fine. As other have said, dont think there was anything in the envelopes, it was blatantly supposed to be a motivational tool.

WhatWhale -

American red here, been a fan since 8 years old and will be for life. That said, I haven't seen it yet. Not sure if/when I will. Names will be Downing, Cole, and Cole.

Royhendo -

It was sh!te.

 

Speaking of dubious decisions what have been your reactions to Ashley's handling of the Newcastle "brand", renaming St James', sacking Hughton,

 

Prof -

He's done well to keep his profile a bit lower than when he first went their and pissed you all off, although the renaming of your ground wasn't in keeping with the new low profile. I thought Hughton was harshly treated, but it looks like the right move now doesn't it?

Not Too Xabi -

Ashley is clearly a very shrewd businessman, however he seems to be a walking PR disaster. I've always liked Newcastle- great city, proper club, and it was sad to see what you went through with relegation etc but having rode it out you seem to have come out of the other side much better off. Hughton seemed like a good guy and a talented manager, but theres no denying Pardew and his staff have done a great job. Maybe Ashley does know what he's up to after all?!

royhendo -

I have a couple of mates who are big Newcastle fans - I even went to see you a couple of times when you were down a division (Carroll looked bloody great then) and I felt for you all back then. We'd just come off the back of a horrendous period of ownership and were only starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel ourselves. He was bloody awful, but he's shrewd and he's turning it round. I'd understand if you still all hated him though.

KingLuis05 -

He's made some seemingly ridiculous decisions down the years. The sacking of Hughton in particular seemed crazy at the time, but I suppose it was the correct decision in hindsight. I don't like the idea of stadiums being renamed at all, but that's modern football for you. I guess it's something you can learn to put up with as long as the results on the pitch are alright, everyone still called it St James' after all. He's not the best owner ever but certainly not the worst either.

 

How do you think your season has started? and how do you see Liverpool's season panning out?

 

RichardM -

Not great, we deserve more points than we have

but you can't dwel

l on that so hey ho. I think we've played some fantastic football for the most part and it's been great to see the youngsters come in and do so well. I don't think we'll finish fourth, although ofcourse I am still hopeful! As long as we aren't far off it and we can see some obvious progress, I'll be happy. This is certainly not an overnight task!

RedWhiteAndNotBlue -

It certainly could have gone better, but we're by no means playing as badly as results would suggest. With neutral or competent referees we could well be top 4. We've played a lot of harder games already, if we can string a run of results together between now and January we should be in a strong position when we hopefully add depth to our squad in January.

Prof -

I've never known so many big decisions go against us. I think we should be at least 6 points better off, but haven't had a pen given to us yet and have had a few harsh red cards. The offside last weekend was a joke. They say the best trait for a manager is to be lucky... Rodgers is not. I'm pleased with how quickly we are settling into the new system. We badly need Lucas back though. The highlights for me are the amount of game time our gems are getting and Joe Allen is one heck of a player. I can see us getting close to the 70 point mark, where that'll see us finish is anyone's guess. I don't think Ars'nal or Spurs are out of reach, we need a lot to go right though. There's no real margin for error or bad luck.

The 5th Bentile -

Slowly - but the signs are good. I think we'll have a good cup run and finish 5th or 6th with a hell of a lot to build on for Rodgers second season.

Europa League seems to have gone well for all the English clubs; Do any of us have a realistic shout of winning it, or will it most likely go to one of the drop-outs from the Champions League.?

 

Studog -

I think it all comes down to how serious the current teams take it from the quarters on. I think a team in it now will win it personally, ex-CL clubs don’t seem to want the hassle. I think it’s a worthwhile trophy and teams should take it more seriously.

KerryKop -

The final last year was competed against two sides who were not CL dropouts so dont see the overwhelming likelihood in that. We both have realistic chances, but there's a lot to be said for European pedigree and we got quite a bit of it.

StevenLFC -

I'd say that we all have a reasonable chance at doing well in it, however it depends how seriously the 'Champions League Dropouts' take it. I'd usually trust us to beat anybody in Europe at home, but we have a lot of players without much European experience so I'm not too confident.

Stewil007

- The EL does have some very strong and famous teams at the moment and it is possible an english side could win it, tho i would put money on a spanish team winning it again, they know how to play the EL format the best (IMO)

Realistically, how do you see Newcastle's domestic season panning out?

 

RichardM -

I think you'll do well, maybe fizzle out over the christmas period and over the ACON, but you'll pick it up towards the end of the season and finish strong. I can't see you qualifying for CL but you stand just as good a chance as, if not better than us.

KingLuis05 -

Can't see you finishing 5th again, realistically we'll be fighting you for 6th/7th.

RoyHendo -

You'll do well and push for the European places again I reckon, unless players are sold in January.

RedWhiteAndNotBlue -

I cannot see you doing as well as last year. Top 10, a little off the pace for European qualification.

Some people really seem to hate Pardew, what are your thoughts on him?

 

 

KingLuis05 -

He's a decent manager, did quite well at West Ham and is doing a great job with your lot. Certainly a lot better than the likes of Bruce and Allardyce who keep getting jobs despite being awful. He comes across alright. Perhaps a bit arrogant, but I have no reason to hate the guy.

RedWhiteAndNotBlue -

Compared to some of the dross that manages teams in the Premier League, I find him pretty reasonable. He's certainly more than competent at what he does and comes over as a reasonable sort of person. Then again, who knows what people are really like?

RoyHendo -

I think if he was chocolate, he'd eat himself, but I don't mind him really.

FernandoSusoLFC -

I think he is a cocky arrogant prick. The reason as to why is when he pushed the lino in that game and laughed it off.

There's a lot of the ex-Liverpool lot in the media, on highlight shows, radio shows and as commentators. Do you think you're over-represented? And do their affections for their old club stop them from being balanced?

 

Studog -

I agree we have a lot of ex-players in the media, but of those who’s opinion is half decent, there are not many. Hansen and Lawrenson are cringe worthy. I feel Souness and Redknapp aren’t particularly biased but often provide a good view point particularly the former.

Draids -

There are a few ex-reds knocking about as pundits, i think most of them are pretty impartial, Hansen and Thompson for the most part talk sense. Redknapp i think is occasionally quite biased towrads us and the least said about Mark Lawrenson the better, mans a fool. But i don't think you could say we get any special treatment on TV because of the amount of ex liverpool players on there, we generally get criticised for most of what we do it seems.

RichardM -

Not at all, if you listen to anything Lawro says! The man seems to hate us! But no, I think our ex players with the exception of a few (Fowler, Barnes etc.) don't really show any affiliation to us in their punditry.

Hazell -

Hmm, I would say they go too far the other way, being overtly critical of the club, the manager and the players. When they're not doing that, I don't think they contribute too much. In fact, most commentators and pundits are pretty useless, regardless of whether they played for us not. John Barnes is the only ex-red I can think of in the media who's got a brain. Aside from that, the likes of Jimmy Armfield, David Pleat and Mick McCarthy I like, and Gary Neville as well, unfortunately. Don't care if they played for Liverpool or not, just some knowledge and a lack of an agenda would be nice. What do you think of Shearer? I think he doesn't really add much on MoTD (just like most others on there) but even if you think that as well, do you care, given he's one of the few ex-Newcastle players working in the media?

What do you think the score will be?

 

Prof

2-1

Scatman

2-1

RichardM

3-2

FernandoSusoLFC

1-2

Stewil007

Depends which Suarez turns up, pinpoint Suarez and we win 3-2, wayward Suarez 1-2, altho i think a score draw is most likely (

TF: Rather hedging his bets, isn't he?

)

K erryKop

1-0

WhatWhale

2-2

Thog

2-1

LankyGuy07

3-2

Willo

Heart says 2-0 (Suarez x2) head says 1-1 (Suarez, Ben Arfa)

 

Are there any Newcastle players you're specifically worried about for Sunday?

 

archie -

Decent in the middle of the park so that should be interesting. Individuals, no.

BigRedRitchie -

I'm not so worried about yours or anyone else's players to be honest. I'm more worried about which of our defences turn up or go AWOL. If we are on our game, then I'm not going to over worry about any of your players, although we usually gift most teams a goal these days, so we'll need to score two. If the lads disapear again, then you could probably play your under 17s and still take at least a point off us.

Draids -

Ba and Cisse are the obvious choices, although Cisse hasnt really showed any of his form from last season, Ba however seems back to his best. I really like Tiote as well, top player. Colocinni seems to be playing pretty well, i quite like the look of Santon too.

NotTooXabi -

In short, yes! Tiote and Ba will be big misses for you, but with Cisse, Ben Arfa and Cabaye on the pitch you have more than enough potential matchwinners. The battle for control of the midfield is going to be key and I feel that if we can get Suarez 1v1 with your centre halves he will have plenty of joy.

RedWhiteAndNotBlue -

Anyone who fancies kicking Luis Suarez. As our only fit senior striker, seeing him risked for 45 (could have been 75) minutes against Swansea in the week only highlighted the paper thin nature of our squad. To be honest, after our season so far, I'm far more worried about the referee.

Hazell -

Obvious answer but you're front two are dangerous, if one's not scoring, the other usually is. And Ben Arfa as well, he had some problems at other clubs but seems to have settled in at Newcastle. If our midfield gives him an opportunity, he'll take it. Also Cabaye who's has given you some real quality in midfield. And Coloccini has become one of the best defenders in the league. He probably won't play but Sammy Ameobi looks a decent young player. Are you excited about him?

 

Thanks for any and all responses.

Soon as the responses are compiled I'll pop back on and give you a link to the Toontastic.net page.

 

Loads of responses and I appreciate the time people put in. Tried to get a balance of opinions but there seems to be a lot of members of RAWK that swim in the same direction. Specifically about "supporting the manager". It's the same fervour that they defended Dalglish with. Stoicism or Blind faith? you be the judge.

 

Complete faith they'll turn themselves around and end up challenging for Europe and that Rodger's "philosophy" will win out in the end. Mind you, on a day when the Telegraph is running a story about a whole heap of players leaving and money is apparently available for replacements... which means Rodgers will be in a novel position, Large sums of cash with which to build a squad for a "Big Club" instead of the smaller teams he's thus far been steward of.

 

Sounds like Ba may well be fit, which is obviously a massive boost, but missing Tiote could very well be the crux of the game on Sunday anyway.

 

If we can be clinical with the chances we make I've got hopes of a point, if Cisse doesn't find his shooting boots we may well hand Liverpool their "tipping point" game.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Fish