Alex 35079 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But you're the one comparing where we were at this stage last season with where we are at this stage this season, CT. And in the first 10 or 11 games last year we had a very settled side. This season it's been anything but settled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 So it is, Tiote played 1 more at 24 games. Still the point stands that our success last season was not due to a settled 11 playing most games. no it doesn't. the team's success last year was built on continuty. colo was an almost ever present as were tiote and krul. three massive players for us. taylor played while santon was waiting in the wings to come in. ditto obertan for ben arfa and best before cisse arrived. this season we've been chopping and changing left right and centre due to injuries and suspensions, crucially to key players like the three mentioned above. i don't think pardew has put out what he'd describe as his first choice 11 right now more than once. he was able to countless times last season. and you shouldn't forget that at the time taylor and obertan were starting, it was largely when they were keeping the likes of santon and ben arfa out of the side. we wouldn't have done half as well as we did last season if we'd had our usual luck with injuries. we got lucky in that respect. we had a massive chance to sort that out in the summer; what do we get? one player not good enough to start games and a handful of kids. pardew is struggling to find his best 11 right now, but the real blame with our average start has to lie with ashley. the squad was crying out for players ready to play first team football to build on last season's surprise success. he didn't deliver any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 First loss in 6 games yesterday, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But you're the one comparing where we were at this stage last season with where we are at this stage this season, CT. And in the first 10 or 11 games last year we had a very settled side. This season it's been anything but settled. I cant recall how settled it was last year. I vaguely remember the strike pairing changing every game for a while but I wouldnt swear to it. I think all of these things play their part, but I still think the underlying problem is team formation, style of play and I see no signs of green shoots of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17256 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I cant recall how settled it was last year. I vaguely remember the strike pairing changing every game for a while but I wouldnt swear to it. I think all of these things play their part, but I still think the underlying problem is team formation, style of play and I see no signs of green shoots of change. Would key players being mising possibly have a bearing on that?.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35079 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 (edited) I cant recall how settled it was last year. I vaguely remember the strike pairing changing every game for a while but I wouldnt swear to it. I think all of these things play their part, but I still think the underlying problem is team formation, style of play and I see no signs of green shoots of change. I've checked on .com and it was more or less the same side every week for the first 11 games league games. Stark contrast with this season. I can't believe anyone could doubt the relevance of that tbh. It's as plain as day. Selective memory? Edited November 12, 2012 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 First loss in 6 games yesterday, right? Oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Would key players being mising possibly have a bearing on that?.... A bearing yes, not the cause of our utter toothless displays all season, even when the big guns have all played together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I've checked on .com and it was more or less the same side every week for the first 11 games league games. Stark contrast with this season. I can't believe anyone could doubt the relevance of that tbh. It's as plain as day. Selective memory? Ive just checked as well and the front two changed every game for the first 4 or 5 matches. And again, nobody has said its not relevant, just not the main factor imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 35079 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Ive just checked as well and the front two changed every game for the first 4 or 5 matches. And again, nobody has said its not relevant, just not the main factor imo. Well that's where we differ on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Oh dear There is an appropriate level of concern at losing one game in 6 after a string of poor performances. It's mitigated by the injuries and bans the impact of which are exacerbated by the lack of strengthening in summer. Your whining is off the chart. Especially when your solution was implemented with Shane played in the Jonas role and we were still garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4725 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well that's where we differ on this one Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 You'll be hinting at a relegation battle next week. Guess I did you a disservice there CT, took less than 10 hours and I wasn't even being serious... While we may not get dragged into a relegation battle, all the ingredients are currently there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17256 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Guess I did you a disservice there CT, took less than 10 hours and I wasn't even being serious... like I said earlier if this form continues for months then I might want him out . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9399 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Despite the bemoaning of the lack of strengthening it seems to me that the areas in which we are struggling have sod all to do with the areas everyone said we should have strengthened (CB and fullback) our defence isn't the current problem IMO (could be better, yes, but not the major issue). We can't score goals, even our lamentable crossing isn't helped by the fact we get bugger all players in the box, it's the final third we look clueless in, just totally disjointed from midfield onwards. Cabaye (who would have been nowehere near a place on the replace by strengthening list) has been a shadow of his former self, Tiote/Colo hardly played, Cisse looke like Shola at his worst. Need someone to step up and join midfield to attack, it should be Cabaye really but he's been poor, maybe that's because he hasn't had Tiote as his security blanket, who can say, but he should still be under instruction to play his game, there is just no movement in the final third. On the subject of the crossing, why when the ball is over on one flank isn't the player on the opposite side piling into the box for anything overhit, fuck worrying about getting hit "on the break", when in good areas attack with purpose and sensible numbers (the front four and support from one of the central midfielders). We actually move the ball quite well at times up until the danger area then it all grinds to a halt. Being able to play our first eleven for a few games would be a good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Get fined if you go into the box probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigWalrus 0 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Far from it being a simple solution, but the big issue yesterday was being over-run in midfield. Their five was essentially up against three of us. I don't count Ben Arfa as a proper midfielder as there isn't an awful lot from him in terms of tracking runs, tackling etc. With Ba and Cisse / Shola both playing fairly high up the pitch, there was a huge gap between our front two and the lads behind, meaning long balls were almost inevitable. If Tiote and Cabaye are both in the middle and playing well, we can often get away with such a tactic, but our midfield yesterday simply wasn't up to scratch. Anita has a canny pass on him, but he just isn't the physical presence of Tiote, and against a team like West Ham you need someone who can match them physically. Cisse is an altogether different problem. He looks like a completely different player. Last season (goals aside) his first touch was magnetic, he was taking players on, dropping deep, looking for the ball. Jimmy Savile had a more effective first touch than Cisse has now. I don't envy Pardew though - he has a lot of problems to sort out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4156 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I wonder, are we actually missing Raylor? Judging from the atrocious quality of our set pieces and crossing etc, we just may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADP 0 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I wonder, are we actually missing Raylor? Judging from the atrocious quality of our set pieces and crossing etc, we just may be. Cabaye's set piece delivery is shit like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hatem should take freekicks and corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 People forget that 90% of Raylors set pieces are also shite. He just gets remembered for the good ones. I think Walrus's point of getting overrun in midfield is certainly valid and I just don't think we have the players to play an effective 4-4-2 unless Cabaye and Tiote are firing on all cylinders. You need wingers who are terrorising the opposition and whipping crosses in or are working really hard. Jonas has always done the working hard bit but now seems to have lost the ability to effectively join in the attack. Ben Arfa is a constant threat but he's all over the place rather than giving us an outlet out wide. If you cant stretch the play out wide then you need to be able to boss the middle and if the opposition has more players (and ones built like brick shit houses like Diame) then you can't do that either. I personally think Pardew has identified this as a problem but doesn't know how to solve it without putting Ba back out left. Given Cisse's form at the moment you would find it difficult to justify playing him centrally ahead of Ba but I'm not sure how else we can do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 People forget that 90% of Raylors set pieces are also shite. He just gets remembered for the good ones. I think Walrus's point of getting overrun in midfield is certainly valid and I just don't think we have the players to play an effective 4-4-2 unless Cabaye and Tiote are firing on all cylinders. You need wingers who are terrorising the opposition and whipping crosses in or are working really hard. Jonas has always done the working hard bit but now seems to have lost the ability to effectively join in the attack. Ben Arfa is a constant threat but he's all over the place rather than giving us an outlet out wide. If you cant stretch the play out wide then you need to be able to boss the middle and if the opposition has more players (and ones built like brick shit houses like Diame) then you can't do that either. I personally think Pardew has identified this as a problem but doesn't know how to solve it without putting Ba back out left. Given Cisse's form at the moment you would find it difficult to justify playing him centrally ahead of Ba but I'm not sure how else we can do it. I think the majority of R.Taylor's set pieces are average, but occasionally he provides genuine quality. The majority of Cabaye's corners and crossing-freekicks are poor, but occasionally he provides an average one. That, for me, is the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1245 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think Cabayes provided just as many quality ones tbf and I think most of Raylors corners are fucking woeful. What he perhaps is better at is the freekicks that he just plays into the box. Cabaye seems particularly poor at those at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21915 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 we looked our best last season playing 4-3-3, with tiote and jonas holding and cabaye getting forward to support cisse, ben arfa and ba up front. it worked becausetiote and jonas shut up shop, allowing cabaye to link up play and get forward. and it worked because ben arfa could get forward more. the only person it didn't reallyt work out for is ba. i can think the only reason we haven't tried it much this season is so not to piss him off. it also worked because the likes of tiote, colo and krul were all consistently available. take those three out and we're a much easuer team to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10857 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 we looked our best last season playing 4-3-3, with tiote and jonas holding and cabaye getting forward to support cisse, ben arfa and ba up front. it worked becausetiote and jonas shut up shop, allowing cabaye to link up play and get forward. and it worked because ben arfa could get forward more. the only person it didn't reallyt work out for is ba. i can think the only reason we haven't tried it much this season is so not to piss him off. it also worked because the likes of tiote, colo and krul were all consistently available. take those three out and we're a much easuer team to beat. I think that last bit can't be overstated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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