Disney buys Lucasfilms(/Star Wars)

[Rayvin 5295]

I don't think it's a feminism thing, I just think it's a bad writing thing. I don't doubt there's pressure to redress the imbalance when it comes to the number of male protagonists in action/adventure stories, but her seeming supremely powerful isn't SJW feministas or whatever, it's just bad writing.

 

The new prequel movie looks all right from the trailers (but then, so did Suicide Squad), and I couldn't give a toss that the lead is a girl. It certainly isn't suggesting she's an uber-Jedi in waiting, just a competent protagonist.

 

Re: what to expect from the forthcoming sequels, I expect Ren will continue to struggle with his choices and the Big Bad will test Rei's resolve. I'd anticipate another couple of duels between these two, and that those duels will be a closer match. Perhaps Rei's arrogant? Perhaps Ren isn't distracted by the patricide he just committed?

 

End of the day, isn't "bringing balance" what the whole Star Wars folklore is about?

 

Well ok - bad writing. I mean the writing was lazy anyway given that it was a redo of A New Hope, so I can accept the possibility that they may just have written it badly full stop. Moving on though, the new movie does look awesome, and I'm really looking forward to it. It looks much darker and hopefully will be much better written. The lead, I figured, was potentially going to be cast in a Han Solo kind of role - so that should hopefully make it compelling. I'm much more optimistic about this than the rest of the main trilogy.

 

As for the main trilogy you're probably right. I just prefer my stories to have flawed good guys and an actual sense of progression. I mean, I think actually I tend to root for the bad guys, which is why my main issue with the new film wasn't Rei (despite how it may appear in this argument), it was Ren. He's just so outclassed that it makes the rest of his narrative almost irrelevant. He'll either turn good at the end or will become embroiled in a futile battle against an insurmountable foe. Which is just kind of a let down. If he turned Rei and she went dark, that'd be a much more compelling story. Not that Disney would ever let that happen.

[The Fish 10963]

Well ok - bad writing. I mean the writing was lazy anyway given that it was a redo of A New Hope, so I can accept the possibility that they may just have written it badly full stop. Moving on though, the new movie does look awesome, and I'm really looking forward to it. It looks much darker and hopefully will be much better written. The lead, I figured, was potentially going to be cast in a Han Solo kind of role - so that should hopefully make it compelling. I'm much more optimistic about this than the rest of the main trilogy.

 

As for the main trilogy you're probably right. I just prefer my stories to have flawed good guys and an actual sense of progression. I mean, I think actually I tend to root for the bad guys, which is why my main issue with the new film wasn't Rei (despite how it may appear in this argument), it was Ren. He's just so outclassed that it makes the rest of his narrative almost irrelevant. He'll either turn good at the end or will become embroiled in a futile battle against an insurmountable foe. Which is just kind of a let down. If he turned Rei and she went dark, that'd be a much more compelling story. Not that Disney would ever let that happen.

 

Me too, which is why most of the DC stable leaves me cold and I prefer Marvel. Marvel also tend to have supremely powerful badguys and plucky goodguys prevailing over seemingly impossible odds. DC tends to be the other way around, I mean Superman's archenemy is a businessman. 

 

I agree that Disney will shy away from making the new movies really surprising or challening, they have to market it mainly at kids so you couldn't have a really interesting bleak arc.

 

Ren can still be relevant, especially if he trades more of his humanity for the kind of power that will get him on a level playing field with Rey. As HF said, Rey is blatantly a hugely powerful Jedi in waiting, perhaps Ren just isn't all that powerful and the real threat comes from the Big Bad? Or perhaps he won't tap into greater power until he fully commits to one path or the other? Perhaps his place as the number 2 is threatened now and some new apprentice will rise? Maybe Ren is there to be rescued?

[Rayvin 5295]

Me too, which is why most of the DC stable leaves me cold and I prefer Marvel. Marvel also tend to have supremely powerful badguys and plucky goodguys prevailing over seemingly impossible odds. DC tends to be the other way around, I mean Superman's archenemy is a businessman. 

 

I agree that Disney will shy away from making the new movies really surprising or challening, they have to market it mainly at kids so you couldn't have a really interesting bleak arc.

 

Ren can still be relevant, especially if he trades more of his humanity for the kind of power that will get him on a level playing field with Rey. As HF said, Rey is blatantly a hugely powerful Jedi in waiting, perhaps Ren just isn't all that powerful and the real threat comes from the Big Bad? Or perhaps he won't tap into greater power until he fully commits to one path or the other? Perhaps his place as the number 2 is threatened now and some new apprentice will rise? Maybe Ren is there to be rescued?

 

I think they're going to run it close to the original canon, despite initial appearances. They have a very similar breakdown of characters. Then again, if they were, they'd not be making Ren so useless. I suspect you're right, and that Ren will be rescued given the amount of chatter the film had about bringing him back from the brink. Then he'll probably fall on his sword in some manner of noble way.

 

Maybe the issue is me, maybe I just can't handle this cliched shit any more. I suppose I'll watch the next one and see if it continues in the vein I expect it to. If it does, I'll probably just not bother with the final one.

 

This is why Rogue One is so important to me - It's literally the last hope for the series IMO.

 

As a final note, interesting point about DC. Hadn't considered that ever, although I've always found Superman tedious in the extreme for much the same reasons I don't like Rei or Thor. The fact that his enemy is a businessman is something I'd never considered and is actually truly bizarre

Edited September 7, 2016 by Rayvin

[Renton 21982]

"Maybe the issue is me, maybe I just can't handle this cliched shit any more".

 

It's called growing up, it happens sooner for some people than others. Maybe even the Fish will get there one day once he's got a mortgage.

 

I'm old enough to remember the release of the first star wars. Watching the FA the other day it struck me the film is more a reboot than a sequel. Take away Abram's admittedly great use of action sequences it's a completely pointless film. The series won't improve as as you say there's nowhere to go too. It's just a reboot for the next generation.

[The Fish 10963]

"Maybe the issue is me, maybe I just can't handle this cliched shit any more".

 

It's called growing up, it happens sooner for some people than others. Maybe even the Fish will get there one day once he's got a mortgage.

 

I'm old enough to remember the release of the first star wars. Watching the FA the other day it struck me the film is more a reboot than a sequel. Take away Abram's admittedly great use of action sequences it's a completely pointless film. The series won't improve as as you say there's nowhere to go too. It's just a reboot for the next generation.

If the choice is between flights of fancy or stained glass windows and seagull murder, I know which sounds more appealling

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3962]

I mean, come on.

 

1 - Luke and Rei are both fictional. 'It isn't her fault that she's better' is a bizarre thing to say. She is a written character. She was written a certain way for a reason.

 

2 - Loads of people moaned about the first film. I can't recall if pod-racing was amongst the complaints but I agree, a five year old winning pod racing is dumb. Not sure it's Mary Sueing but if it is then I happily accept that. Fortunately it wasn't a trilogy spanning plot point. They did overpower Anakin in the follow up films, but this came with massive personality failures to balance it. Also, the consensus was that these films were bad. They were railed at for being bad.

 

My point here is that Disney have already blown their collective load on the final victory of the good guys. Rei is already better in the force than the bad guy. Who will go away and whine about it, probably come back in the second film with some means to get back at her without actually fighting her since he'd be annihilated if he did, before she eventually wipes the floor with him in the final film. Luke wasn't better with the force than the bad guys in his trilogy at any point. Therefore there was some 'threat'.

 

3 - You got me. I'm a misogynist. You can always tell when someone has a winning argument when lines like that come out. You realise your argument could have stood without that point, and we'd just be two people discussing the merits of the film? I think it's poorly written and I think it's written that way to pursue an agenda. I don't give a shit about the agenda, it just bothers me that it is poorly written, in my view, because of this.

 

You are assuming of course that Kylo Ren is the main bad guy and not just a patsy the real bad guys are using because of his family.

[Rayvin 5295]

You are assuming of course that Kylo Ren is the main bad guy and not just a patsy the real bad guys are using because of his family.

 

This is true - and the alternative is quite possible, I concede. As I say, I'll give it the next film to 'correct' my assumptions on it I suppose.

[Park Life 71]

You dopey gimps.

 

Rei might be force sensitive but she has no training...Remember Luke struggling on Degobah with Yoda.

 

I'm fucking force sensitive but I'd run a mile from Ren.

 

Disney is rushing these films out without one clue with reg to their mythology and nomenclature.

 

There is a reason the Jedi school and Jedi temple exist.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Park Life

[Howmanheyman 33827]

In the very first film Luke is able to use the force to direct the missiles he fires, down a small vent and destroy the Death Star. The training he'd had up to that was what, duelling with a floaty orb? In the second film he goes toe-to-toe with Vader (who's supposed to be one of the most powerful force users ever) again, with close to fuck all training. Also, until this trilogy is over we are unclear as to Rei's power and how much influence Luke was exerting upon her? And yes, maybe Kylo Ren is a bit shit, or at the very least conflicted?

 

I'm not saying Rei isn't stupidly powerful, I'm asking why, in this concocted universe, does it matter?

Spoilers FFS!!!!!

[Happy Face 29]

I mean, come on.

 

1 - Luke and Rei are both fictional. 'It isn't her fault that she's better' is a bizarre thing to say. She is a written character. She was written a certain way for a reason.

 

2 - Loads of people moaned about the first film. I can't recall if pod-racing was amongst the complaints but I agree, a five year old winning pod racing is dumb. Not sure it's Mary Sueing but if it is then I happily accept that. Fortunately it wasn't a trilogy spanning plot point. They did overpower Anakin in the follow up films, but this came with massive personality failures to balance it. Also, the consensus was that these films were bad. They were railed at for being bad.

 

My point here is that Disney have already blown their collective load on the final victory of the good guys. Rei is already better in the force than the bad guy. Who will go away and whine about it, probably come back in the second film with some means to get back at her without actually fighting her since he'd be annihilated if he did, before she eventually wipes the floor with him in the final film. Luke wasn't better with the force than the bad guys in his trilogy at any point. Therefore there was some 'threat'.

 

3 - You got me. I'm a misogynist. You can always tell when someone has a winning argument when lines like that come out. You realise your argument could have stood without that point, and we'd just be two people discussing the merits of the film? I think it's poorly written and I think it's written that way to pursue an agenda. I don't give a shit about the agenda, it just bothers me that it is poorly written, in my view, because of this.

 

3.  Love how defensive you've got over  a sentence that included the word "midi-chlorian"

[Alex 35570]

Spoilers FFS!!!!!

[Gemmill 46020]

Fucking hell, talk about a disturbance in the force. Every fanny in the Northern hemisphere has spontaneously dried up as a direct effect of the last two pages.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3962]

Fucking hell, talk about a disturbance in the force. Every fanny in the Northern hemisphere has spontaneously dried up as a direct effect of the last two pages.

 

I'm pretty sure CT is still posting.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Kevin Carr's Gloves

[Park Life 71]

Luke was a slow witted mong.  That's why it took him 6 years to get any good with the force.  It's not Rey's fault she's better than him.

 

Darth Vader was winning the biggest pod races in the Galaxy when he was 5 year old.  No-one moaned about him being a Mary Sue.  The racists just picked on Jar Jar Binks for his Afro Caribbean laid back demeanour in those films.

 

Different Jedi have different midi-chlorian counts.  "The force is strong in this one" can't apply to women among misogynists though. Leia had to be rescued and sit out the battles despite the force in her lineage and that's the way nerds like it.

Darth Vader aka Anakin was a padawan for ages.

 

In Jedi lore it takes about 7-10 years to approach master level.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Park Life

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3962]

Darth Vader aka Anakin was a padawan for ages.

 

 

Not when he was winning pod races.

 

Just face it you're a massive mysoginist who can't abide the thought of women achieving parity with men because it makes your cock feel droopy.

[Rayvin 5295]

3.  Love how defensive you've got over  a sentence that included the word "midi-chlorian"

 

Midi-chlorians are fucking important

[Park Life 71]

Not when he was winning pod races.

 

Just face it you're a massive mysoginist who can't abide the thought of women achieving parity with men because it makes your cock feel droopy.

Younglings have to go to 'the gathering' and train and make their own light sabre with kyber crystals, the promising initiates are given a master etc...It takes ages to channel the force to be able to fight a Sith Lord or proto Sith Lord.

 

But no this scraggy idiot Rey nearly kills Ren who is under the personal tutelage of an ancient Sith Master. Ridiculous.

 

Disney are going to wreck the franchise.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Park Life

[Rayvin 5295]

Fucking hell, talk about a disturbance in the force. Every fanny in the Northern hemisphere has spontaneously dried up as a direct effect of the last two pages.

 

[Rayvin 5295]

Younglings have to go to 'the gathering' and train and make their own light sabre with kyber crystals, the promising initiates are given a master etc...It takes ages to channel the force to be able to fight a Sith Lord or proto Sith Lord.

 

This is pretty much true tbf. It is possible to take issue with how they did this film without being a misogynist lads, it really is. The only real debate here for me is if they did this through shitty writing as the Fish suggests, and or if they did it through the need to conform to current prevailing cultural narratives.

 

I'm happy to say it could be either at this point. I'm just pissed off that it happened.

[Gemmill 46020]

Younglings have to go to 'the gathering' and train and make their own light sabre with kyber crystals, the promising initiates are given a master etc...It takes ages to channel the force to be able to fight a Sith Lord or proto Sith Lord.

 

But no this scraggy idiot Rey nearly kills Ren who is under the personal tutelage of an ancient Sith Master. Ridiculous.

 

Disney are going to wreck the franchise.

[emoji38] Your posts about this are indecipherable from your posts about the new world order. You need to stick to one or the other, this is just confusing.

[Park Life 71]

This is pretty much true tbf. It is possible to take issue with how they did this film without being a misogynist lads, it really is. The only real debate here for me is if they did this through shitty writing as the Fish suggests, and or if they did it through the need to conform to current prevailing cultural narratives.

 

I'm happy to say it could be either at this point. I'm just pissed off that it happened.

It's like all these films now where some flimsy bitch fucks up everything within range.

[Christmas Tree 4821]

Fucking hell, talk about a disturbance in the force. Every fanny in the Northern hemisphere has spontaneously dried up as a direct effect of the last two pages.

:lol:

[Gemmill 46020]

It's like all these films now where some flimsy bitch fucks up everything within range.

If you're talking about Jennifer Lawrence, you better take that shit back.

[Rayvin 5295]

 

I thought Lawrence was good in the HG. She had depth and wasn't all powerful. The story was a bit dull but her character was unobjectionable, IMO. Unless I missed something.

[Meenzer 15716]

Don't worry Parky, they're not going to confiscate your penis.

 

(yet)