Red bull(shit) stratos record.

[Meenzer 15561]

So you don't need any oxygen to make steam? Is this correct?

 

I wish there was some way of checking whether this had been covered before

 

Point 1 - you don't need oxygen to make steam.

[ChezGiven 0]

It would still require a large conspiracy with the risk of exposure and consequent murder charged. They didn't even attempt to fake WMD in Iraq man which in comparison would be a piece of piss.

 

You of all people should appreciate the rule of Occam's razor.

Why a large conspiracy? You obviously dont know anything about how the global system for monitoring, verification and inspection of weapons at the UN works. Getting a Swedish liberal independent to fake WMD's is a piece of piss? What ?

 

Occam's razor is irrelevant, thats a tool for pure theory. What you are trying to invoke is the old adage that the simplest explanation is often the most accurate, keep-it-simple-stupid etc.

 

However, lets test it out, which of these has the least credulous assumptions:

 

1. neo-conservative super power which has explicitly stated its desire to establish military bases in the middle east, to oust Saddam Hussein and to open up new military theaters whilst in opposition in 1999, has opportunity within 10 months of coming to power due to an unforeseen and unprecedented attack on US soil. The attack comes perfectly timed to establish a two term president and the time required to implement this stated military strategy. The fact that Bush has stated his desire to do all this in opposition and the WTC attack comes at the beginning of his first presidency, that this attack is unprecedented in peace time and is the absolute perfect vehicle to justify a massively immoral and horrendous war is just all pure fucking coincidence.

 

2. It wasnt a coincidence but was allowed to happen by military intelligence itching to implement the strategy.

[ADP 0]

[Renton 21643]

Why a large conspiracy? You obviously dont know anything about how the global system for monitoring, verification and inspection of weapons at the UN works. Getting a Swedish liberal independent to fake WMD's is a piece of piss? What ?

 

Occam's razor is irrelevant, thats a tool for pure theory. What you are trying to invoke is the old adage that the simplest explanation is often the most accurate, keep-it-simple-stupid etc.

 

However, lets test it out, which of these has the least credulous assumptions:

 

1. neo-conservative super power which has explicitly stated its desire to establish military bases in the middle east, to oust Saddam Hussein and to open up new military theaters whilst in opposition in 1999, has opportunity within 10 months of coming to power due to an unforeseen and unprecedented attack on US soil. The attack comes perfectly timed to establish a two term president and the time required to implement this stated military strategy. The fact that Bush has stated his desire to do all this in opposition and the WTC attack comes at the beginning of his first presidency, that this attack is unprecedented in peace time and is the absolute perfect vehicle to justify a massively immoral and horrendous war is just all pure fucking coincidence.

 

2. It wasnt a coincidence but was allowed to happen by military intelligence itching to implement the strategy.

 

Provide some evidence instead of pointless supposition then.

 

How many people 'high up' would have had to have willfully ignored intelligence from the CIA to purposely let this happen? In any case, how did 20 Saudi terrorists really further the USA's interests in the Middle East, particularly regarding Iraq? Iraq was not invaded because of 9/11 - either time. It doesn't add up at any level.

 

Edit: Btw Chez, getting chemical weapons, used since WW1, into occupied Iraq would have been easy. How not so? Nukes, much more difficult. If you think that's difficult though it just goes to show implausible these conspiracy theories are.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Renton

[Renton 21643]

So you don't need any oxygen to make steam? Is this correct?

 

How fucking thick are you? Steam is just condensing water (from water vapour, the gaesous phase of water) you utter idiot.

 

Did you even manage a CSE in woodwork?

[wolfy 12]

9/11 is a pit full of coincidences and ridiculous shit. In-fact there are so many it makes a mockery of the official story anyway.

 

The Government just happen to be running the exact same terror drill on the very same day it happened.

Larry Silverstein taking out insurance to cover a terrorist attack just months prior.

Pentagon hit in the only place that was under renovation, being supposedly upgraded against a missile attack.

Terrorist pilots with supposedly shit training and one that couldn't supposedly fly a Cessna manage to perform feats that seasoned pilots say is impossible.

All pilots of all planes easily overcome by terrorists with stanley knives on all flights.

One so called terrorist conveniently leaves his travel bag containing flight plans,the quaran and a book on how to fly a jet.

The so called crash in Pennsylvania leaving a small crater with a few scraps of metal and a few items, one of which happens to be one of the bandana's the terrorist was wearing.

 

A plane hits the wtc, goes right in and out pops one of the terrorists passport that floats down a few blocks away and lands in good nick.

Terrorists with fake passports are immediately identified by their real names in lightning quick time.

Two towers collapse to the ground into their own basement at free fall speed.

Tower7, which was not hit by a fake plane, collapses into it's own basement later in the day, yet all other building that were severely damaged a 1000 times worse than tower 7, all stand.

 

George Bush remembers seeing the first plane hit because he was watching the TV before he went into the school, yet the footage wasn't released until the next day after the Naudet brothers released the footage.

 

The Naudet brothers just happened to be filming a documentary on fireman that day and were allowed access to the towers to film. Yeah right.

Mark Bingham phones his Aunt and tell her that he's on a plane and it's been hijacked. His Aunt says his Mother is with her and would he like to speak to her?..He says yes, then says, hi Mum, this is MARK BINGHAM.

 

His Mother is on the news just hours later telling them all about how her son fought the terrorists and what not.

 

 

She also makes a point of mentioning that he phoned her from the AIRPHONE and not his cell phone.

Obviously because there was a big stink about cell phone calls not working on flights in 2001.

 

That's only 1% of the inconsistent shit about that day.

[wolfy 12]

How fucking thick are you? Steam is just condensing water (from water vapour, the gaesous phase of water) you utter idiot.

 

Did you even manage a CSE in woodwork?

And how do you get a gaseous phase of water?

[Renton 21643]

And how do you get a gaseous phase of water?

 

By heating it. Have you ever boiled a kettle?

 

How the fuck are you even capable of breathing?

[wolfy 12]

The whole point of heating water into steam is so the steam can do work. for example, run a turbine

Allowing no venting at all means you get no steam, just heat as in a car engine.

 

In a car engine your radiator keeps your engine from over heating by taking in air through the small grills, cooling it and sending it back round the engine.

This is fine for keeping your engine at a safe temperature because the water is under pressure.

 

It can do no more than keep the engine cool because to vent it....I.E...release the radiator cap, your water would boil away because it would immediately turn to steam.

 

In a nuclear powered submarine, the purpose isn't just to keep a reactor from overheating under pressure, the purpose is to make that water turn turbines which can be done by venting the system, allowing steam to hit the blades at high pressure.

 

Condensing is fine for cooling or keeping a safe temperature in a closed until but it still needs venting to turn turbine blades.

Edited October 18, 2012 by wolfy

[wolfy 12]

By heating it. Have you ever boiled a kettle?

 

How the fuck are you even capable of breathing?

Yes I've BOILED kettle and when it boils, steam comes out of the top.

I've also used a pressure cooker which allows the water inside it to heat up WITHOUT boiling until the safety valve at the top blows open releasing STEAM.

It does this because it's hitting ATMOSPHERE.

[Renton 21643]

Yes I've BOILED kettle and when it boils, steam comes out of the top.

I've also used a pressure cooker which allows the water inside it to heat up WITHOUT boiling until the safety valve at the top blows open releasing STEAM.

It does this because it's hitting ATMOSPHERE.

 

Steam is condensing water vapour, nothing more. Where does oxygen come into any of this?

 

I overestimated you, you are literally less scientifically literate than a dim primary school child. And yet you continue your bizarre 'debate' with a nuclear engineer.

[ChezGiven 0]

Provide some evidence instead of pointless supposition then.

Evidence A: Iraq

Evidence B: Afghanistan

[Renton 21643]

Evidence A: Iraq

Evidence B: Afghanistan

 

Eh? how does 20 fundamental islamist nutters justify the former? What benefit has there been in invading the latter? Is that what GSK calls evidence nowadays?

[ChezGiven 0]

How many people 'high up' would have had to have willfully ignored intelligence from the CIA to purposely let this happen? I

Not many. In executive decision-making, the number is actually only one person with the executive power. I'm not referring to the president, just an understanding of decision-making domains, rights and execution. One person can make all the difference.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

 

Now this is more believable

[rikko 20]

Ok. The steam generator makes High pressure steam. This steam flows through a pipe to the turbine. The steam enters the turbine at high pressure. The steam loses pressure (energy) turning the turbine and low pressure steam exits the turbine. This low pressure steam is condensed inside the pipe and fed back to the steam generator.

 

At no point does it come into contact with oxygen. The 'venting' as you call it is done when the steam passes through the turbine.

 

Inside your pressure cooker there is water. You apply heat and some of the water turns into steam inside it causing the pressure to rise. If the pressure rises too much the relief valve will lift releasing the steam inside. This drops the pressure and the temperature inside the cooker drops too. The valve will then reseat and the pressure will rise again. The steam is made inside the cooker in the absence of oxygen.

[ChezGiven 0]

Eh? how does 20 fundamental islamist nutters justify the former? What benefit has there been in invading the latter? Is that what GSK calls evidence nowadays?

Is that what the NHS calls analysis? That doesnt even make sense. I'll spell it out for you.

 

The evidence that 9/11 was a series of events that would be used to develop the US's military presence in the middle east is the fact that the US started 2 wars in the middle east after 9/11 and used 9/11 repeatedly as the justification for the 2 wars.

 

What you're saying is that it was just pure serendipity, mere coincidence that this event came along 10 months after this gang get into power. Pure chance that it gave them the platform to invade 2 countries they've been saying they should invade since before they had power.

 

You see, to me, that razor you wanted to use, it cuts in the complete opposite direction to the one you are claiming it does.

[Gemmill 44995]

Is that what the NHS calls analysis? That doesnt even make sense. I'll spell it out for you.

 

The evidence that 9/11 was a series of events that would be used to develop the US's military presence in the middle east is the fact that the US started 2 wars in the middle east after 9/11 and used 9/11 repeatedly as the justification for the 2 wars.

 

What you're saying is that it was just pure serendipity, mere coincidence that this event came along 10 months after this gang get into power. Pure chance that it gave them the platform to invade 2 countries they've been saying they should invade since before they had power.

 

You see, to me, that razor you wanted to use, it cuts in the complete opposite direction to the one you are claiming it does.

 

What part does oxygen play in all of this?

[ChezGiven 0]

What part does oxygen play in all of this?

Keeps you thinking clearly.

[Renton 21643]

What part does oxygen play in all of this?

 

Wolfy was deprived of it at biirth?

[wolfy 12]

Steam is condensing water vapour, nothing more. Where does oxygen come into any of this?

 

I overestimated you, you are literally less scientifically literate than a dim primary school child. And yet you continue your bizarre 'debate' with a nuclear engineer.

It's you that lacks it.

[Kid Dynamite 7034]

Everyone knows the world is fucked anyway. Whether its aliens, a new world order, the Jews running things, population limiting etc. etc.

 

We could do with a good old fashioned extinction to sort the planet out. Maybe leave a few folk behind to try and learn from the human mistake and give it another go.

 

If i ever win the lottery im buying a self sufficient lodge on the side of a mountain somewhere

[wolfy 12]

Ok. The steam generator makes High pressure steam. This steam flows through a pipe to the turbine. The steam enters the turbine at high pressure. The steam loses pressure (energy) turning the turbine and low pressure steam exits the turbine. This low pressure steam is condensed inside the pipe and fed back to the steam generator.

 

At no point does it come into contact with oxygen. The 'venting' as you call it is done when the steam passes through the turbine.

 

Inside your pressure cooker there is water. You apply heat and some of the water turns into steam inside it causing the pressure to rise. If the pressure rises too much the relief valve will lift releasing the steam inside. This drops the pressure and the temperature inside the cooker drops too. The valve will then reseat and the pressure will rise again. The steam is made inside the cooker in the absence of oxygen.

Let's take your pressure cooker analysis.

 

The water in the pan heats up and as you rightly say, it builds up a pressure of steam. This is the supposed reactor right?

 

Once the heat is built up, the pressure cookers valves goes, releasing steam into the air.

In a reactor the pressure would be released towards the turbine, doing some work (spinning it), it is passing through on it's way to an outlet in which the turbine happens to be in the path of, so for the steam to get to the outlet, it has to negotiate the turbine blades and then passes through to a condenser which cools down the water to send back but not before it's vented into the atmosphere via the large stacks.

 

Those plants without stacks are simply vented into the sea.

 

Either way, something under pressure has to be vented to do any work like spinning a turbine and cannot be simply just a sealed unit.

Take the safety valve off your pressure cooker and your pressure cooker will explode.

 

If you wanted that pressure cooker to do some work as well as heating your food, you could ( if anyone was arsed that is) put a pipe on outlet at the top and attach the other end to a small turbine, turning it.

 

No matter which way you look at it, it has to be vented somewhere down the line.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

What kind of people would you prefer to leave behind, mister Mengele?

[Renton 21643]

Is that what the NHS calls analysis? That doesnt even make sense. I'll spell it out for you.

 

The evidence that 9/11 was a series of events that would be used to develop the US's military presence in the middle east is the fact that the US started 2 wars in the middle east after 9/11 and used 9/11 repeatedly as the justification for the 2 wars.

 

What you're saying is that it was just pure serendipity, mere coincidence that this event came along 10 months after this gang get into power. Pure chance that it gave them the platform to invade 2 countries they've been saying they should invade since before they had power.

 

You see, to me, that razor you wanted to use, it cuts in the complete opposite direction to the one you are claiming it does.

 

If I get this right the point we disagree on is that you think they knew it was coming and just let it happen. By implication I'm thinking you also think that the military exercise was carried out on 9/11 was also set up etc. That would require a lot of organisation, but anyway, let's not get distracted. I keep repeatedly saying this but the US really didn't need 9/11 to kick off against Iraq, and Bin Laden was totally unconnected with Iraq anyway. And where was the benefit in wasting millions of dollars worth of cruise missiles in a desert in Afghanistan? So it just makes no sense.

 

We knew prior to the events of 9/11 that the islamists, and in particular Bin Laden's group, were waging a war against US interests (first WTC attack, USS Cole, African embassies), that's pretty much a fact. In my opinion (and we are talking opinions here because there are no facts or evidence), I just don't think the US intelligence agencies anticipated anything like the 9/11 attacks happening, nobody did. I think they are guilty of incompetence rather than malevolence. This probably because I'm a lot less cynical than you I guess. A final thought, the people you believe were sacrificed on 9/11 were essentially money men which I'm even less inclined to believe the neocons would murder.