The Fish 10963 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 On the face of it, it's obviously a trophy. I've yet to see one in my life-time and most of the time I just assume I never will. So winning something would be really nice. However, with the way we are set up currently, we need to have progress in the league. If we won the Europa or FA Cup, it would be something special- but don't forget that no player is going to be all that excited by a team who finished 13th but won the FA Cup. If we want to keep progressing as a team and adding to the squad- we will have to progress in the league and eventually get into a Champions League spot. I don't want to win a cup and then take a giant step back as a club. I want to keep pushing forward. That's why the lack of investment this year really, really pisses me off. We finally have a shot to take that next step, to challenge in the top 6 and make another push at that 4th position and our net transfer spend is -3 million. Fucking horseshit. It's not so much that our first team isn't capable, but your first team doesn't stay healthy. When you have to bring Gabriel Obertan off the bench- yeah, I don't think you are a Champions League calibre team. It also forces us to have this debate about which team to play in the cups. Our first XI is so obvious it's painful. You want to have people competing for first team places...we have that in about 2 spots. Anyway, I'm ranting... I agree with the majority of this post, but we have to move away from thinking about progression in terms of money spent on players. Liverpool have spent more than £30m on players this summer (if you include the fees and wages for Sahin) and I wouldn't say they've progressed at all, Arsenal have spent a stack and have improved their depth, but not their 1st team. It's not about money spent, it's about the quality and depth of their squad. Southampton have spent a fortune on Ramirez (sp?) and I honestly believe they'd have been better off buying a couple of players instead of gambling all on one player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I agree with the majority of this post, but we have to move away from thinking about progression in terms of money spent on players. Liverpool have spent more than £30m on players this summer (if you include the fees and wages for Sahin) and I wouldn't say they've progressed at all, Arsenal have spent a stack and have improved their depth, but not their 1st team. It's not about money spent, it's about the quality and depth of their squad. Southampton have spent a fortune on Ramirez (sp?) and I honestly believe they'd have been better off buying a couple of players instead of gambling all on one player. Its not about transfer fees as such, its about paying champions league wages to attract champions league type players. Buliding up a kitty for that is very important. We've got 4 players here of that standard who got huge increases on what they earned on the continent when they joined (Cab,BA,Tiote and Cisse) but to get to the next level we have to continue to recognise that Ashley isnt putting any more of his own money in and everything we spend on players including their salaries has to be generated.Not all players are going to accept what we pay atm and those who have will want more next time round. Premier League type prize money is going to contribute hugely to that (500k a place?) so in that regard its right to concentrate on the league iyam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarStripes 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Like we did in the mid-nineties or under Robson? As good as those games were they weren't as good as watching us lift a trophy. We came close and i'd argue we have a better starting 11 now, problem is, like it was then, is squad depth and the quality of it. We did bring in some good players but we also brought in a load of shite. I think with a few years CL money and the scouting setup we have now we could build a much stronger squad which could challenge on all fronts. If winning a cup gave people joy but in turn lead to us falling behind in the league, which we would, i'd say not thanks personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentAxeman 189 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Gotta be a trophy...... and whats all this shite about CL revenue being re-invested in the team? Do people not realise what a tight fisted fuckwit we have in charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinh9 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 I agree with the majority of this post, but we have to move away from thinking about progression in terms of money spent on players. Liverpool have spent more than £30m on players this summer (if you include the fees and wages for Sahin) and I wouldn't say they've progressed at all, Arsenal have spent a stack and have improved their depth, but not their 1st team. It's not about money spent, it's about the quality and depth of their squad. Southampton have spent a fortune on Ramirez (sp?) and I honestly believe they'd have been better off buying a couple of players instead of gambling all on one player. Well I believe you are conflating my idea of spending money with reckless spending. Asking for more money spent does not mean that I want the days of insane wages and Michael Owen signings to return. Quite the contrary; I've been delighted with the business we've been doing and the personalities we have signed. I wouldn't want us dropping 15 million (see all my Andy Carroll posts) on one player. I just wanted SOME investment. We needed a young striker, we needed a CB and full back and we needed a winger that wasn't named Gabby Obertan (Marveux hasn't proven anything either). That's in addition to what we brought in. That said, I'd be a whole lot happier if we had at least made 2 of those 5 needed signings. Now we have players a heartbeat away from critical matches that have no business being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarStripes 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Gotta be a trophy...... and whats all this shite about CL revenue being re-invested in the team? Do people not realise what a tight fisted fuckwit we have in charge? Have we been in the CL whilst under MA's ownership? No. Until then pipe down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 33828 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Trophy. Most teams that win stuff qualify for Europe anyway. When you've followed this club for years, seen the highs and the lows, shared it all with with your fellow supporters then would you not want a day like this at Wembley or more likely a weekend on the piss celebrating? Seen the days of Fereday, Whitehurst etc at Bournemouth, Barnsley et al, want to see the clips years later of Colo lifting a cup then the camera panning away to see the black & white thousands acclaiming our side. That trophy would be for us and the support we've given our club through the years. Trophy every time for me, like. (nearly said, 'catts for me, like). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Qualification for the champions league would go a long way in showing how far we have come since getting back on track amid a hat full of managers. Winning a cup would be great but not at the expense of a mediocre finish or relegation as as happened to many teams. Not many fans will dine out on a league cup final win or an FA cup final win if it meant we languished at the wrong end of the table or worse, as it would be back to square one of, " so what, we won a cup but the club is in a mess and the players are shite." etc etc. Champions league first and foremost for me but let's be greedy and have a cup and qualification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10963 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Well I believe you are conflating my idea of spending money with reckless spending. Asking for more money spent does not mean that I want the days of insane wages and Michael Owen signings to return. Quite the contrary; I've been delighted with the business we've been doing and the personalities we have signed. I wouldn't want us dropping 15 million (see all my Andy Carroll posts) on one player. I just wanted SOME investment. We needed a young striker, we needed a CB and full back and we needed a winger that wasn't named Gabby Obertan (Marveux hasn't proven anything either). That's in addition to what we brought in. That said, I'd be a whole lot happier if we had at least made 2 of those 5 needed signings. Now we have players a heartbeat away from critical matches that have no business being there. Again, I agree, but if the right player isn't available at the price we can afford/are willing to pay, then we shouldn't spend money regardless. re: the Debuchy situation, I'd not be surprised if he joined us in January, when we've driven down his price a bit/his worth to us has increased. The same business model that brought us Cabaye, Tiote et al, cannot guarantee bargains every term and becomes worthless if we alter the strategy on a whim. We can't complain about it when we don't get phenomenal signings every year because the parameters for pursuing a player seem to be legion, reducing the number of targets to a narrow field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYD 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Papers are all full of it this morning.... Well I for one definitely dont agree. What about you? Pardew is a balloon if he thinks that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummiemag1 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Trophy and strongest possible team every time for me Nothing beats the excitement of a big cup game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 14013 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 Trophy all the way. i.e id rather win the Europa league than qualify for the champions league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 IIRC, Leeds have won the League Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfy 12 Posted September 26, 2012 Share Posted September 26, 2012 ap ink a behher ber wod gee gancions leabue fsmish, gulp.... Sorry about that I had a mouthful of sarnie. I think a better bet would be a champions league finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Cup over one season in the Champs League. However say to me cup or the next three seasons guaranteed CL I'd take the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 CL was worth it for the chance to go to ridiculous places following the team - now that I've done that and even though I'd love to go to more places, winning a cup would absolutely dwarf that experience. Regardless of where we are in the league, if Pardew plays a weak team in January in the FA cup, I'll be seriously pissed off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 4222 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Trophy. Could do wonders for the club and it would just be one hell of a memorable day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 7169 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Here's a list of the clubs that have won the League Cup but never qualified for the Champions League: Aston Villa Leicester City Middlesbrough Birmingham City Here's a list of clubs that have played in the Champions League but never won the League Cup: Newcastle United Manchester City Leeds United Here's a list of the clubs that have done both: Manchester United Arsenal Chelsea Liverpool Blackburn Rovers Tottenham Spurs Better to be in the third group clearly, but if you don't have the squad to do it, then it's pretty obvious that prioritising the League Cup doesn't make you anything other than a bit of an irrelevance in English football history. I bet Leeds fans with the full benefit of hindsight don't give a flying toss that they never won the League Cup in the same period that they were playing in Europe. Manchester City fans are clearly never going to lose sleep over not prioritising the League Cup. I feel not a single shred of sadness at never having won the League Cup in the Champions League era, and I would never ever swap our status as one of the clubs in the second group, just so we could join the ranks of those in the first. Somd fucking fan you are http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1976_Football_League_Cup_Final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 17643 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Somd fucking fan you are http://en.m.wikipedi...eague_Cup_Final He's not a fan, he's another fuckin wum. Wouldn't know the Gallowgate End from his own bell end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 He's not a fan, he's another fuckin wum. Wouldn't know the Gallowgate End from his own bell end. Knives oot! TBF, J69 hasn't got a bellend. He IS a bellend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Somd fucking fan you are http://en.m.wikipedi...eague_Cup_Final Leeds won the league cup in their heyday too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 4821 Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 Leeds won the league cup in their heyday too. Wish I could remember a heyday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 4411 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 And Villa won the proper European cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Our heyday was the mid nineties. /leazesmag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 What exactly is so difficult for certain people to understand here? What exactly is the point in comparing success in the League Cup with the time before the European Cup became the all-important 'top 4' era Champions League in the context of the current question? It's the change in emphasis of a top 4 finish which is precisely why the League Cup became an utterly irrelevant trophy. Congratulations. You are the first and only user on my ignore list. Considering the weapons grade 'banter' on this board, that is some achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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