Work Shy On Benefits

[Christmas Tree 4729]

Don't see any reason why this target group can't earn their benefits by working within their communities.

 

There's always lots that need doing that councils can't afford to cover.

[Park Life 71]

Don't see any reason why this target group can't earn their benefits by working within their communities.

 

There's always lots that need doing that councils can't afford to cover.

 

This is all bollocks. It's about inspirational intervention and not some 1970's texbook about estates and shit.

[Howmanheyman 33282]

Howay Howmanheyman. What about obesity?

It'll save their life when they get stabbed in their ghettoes.

 

'Shy on work, not so shy on the pasties!'

 

If the editor of the tabloids are reading or Cameron's speech writers, then I'm claiming copyright to that one.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Howmanheyman

[Renton 21643]

Don't see any reason why this target group can't earn their benefits by working within their communities.

 

There's always lots that need doing that councils can't afford to cover.

 

Because the cost of supervision would be enormous.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

 

Because the cost of supervision would be enormous.

 

Not at all, just good old fashioned divide and rule.

 

Sort of point system for them to work towards for either extra "stuff" either money or next available council job etc.

 

These things can be achieved if there's a will, otherwise we just sit back and drown.

[Renton 21643]

 

 

Not at all, just good old fashioned divide and rule.

 

Sort of point system for them to work towards for either extra "stuff" either money or next available council job etc.

 

These things can be achieved if there's a will, otherwise we just sit back and drown.

 

It's not a new idea man, it's been thought if before, but it's not economical; the sums don't add up.

[Park Life 71]

Unsurprisingly, the view from trade unions and sympathetic researchers is much grimmer: a 2010 report by researchers from the University of Duisburg-Essen, for instance, provides empirical evidence to show that "mini-jobs" are a growing low-wage trap with little prospect of longer-term transition, even into low-skill employment. Splitting regular jobs into mini ones is becoming more common. And "mini-jobbers" tend to be paid considerably less than the equivalent standard hourly wage for a given activity, nothwithstanding Germany's anti-discrimination laws that explicitly prohibit this."

[wolfy 12]

Every avenue was tried to get the so called work shy into work. It's not about getting people into work, it's about figures. If they take a person off the dole to pick chewing gum off the pavement, or sit in a classroom listening to some ridiculous man or woman giving them quizzes and little puzzles to do, then it's one more from the unemployed list, even though they are still getting their unemployment benefit, plus and extra tenner and help with transport to whatever place they are sent to.

 

It costs the Government more to do this ...far more than it costs to just accept the system for what it is, which is, there will always be a shortage of jobs and there will always be people that play the system.

The real target should be those that are claiming disability allowance and mobility when they can clearly do everyday tasks quite easily and can clearly be seen playing the system.

 

There are real needy cases that can't get disability....The reason for this is...they are too honest. Yes, too honest.

Those that play the system, get away with it because they are very good actors and know what's required to keep on getting disability.

 

No matter what's said...it's all about looking good for whatever party is in power with unemployment figures because it appeases the tax payer, who are happy to see that their Government are supposedly getting strict on dodgers when in fact, you end up paying more tax for the extra work the Government are supposedly putting into getting the unemployed back to work.

 

What you are really paying for is the new jobs the Government have really created and that is...all the man power needed to oversee getting the unemployed doing menial tasks of whatever they are allocated.

 

So you are paying for a number of top people on massive wages, who oversee, admin, secretaries, tutors, supervisors, foremen/women/charge hands and each of those has someone to oversee them, coupled with no loss of job centre staff.

 

Just a few thousand claimants would require an army of people to oversee every aspect and the end result is...everyone gets a tenner extra, plus fares, plus work kit or whatever is needed, plus all their usual benefits anyway and on top of that, you have a mountainous wage bill for the suits in charge of it all.

 

If that sounds sensible to people then at least you can accept the hike in your tax, just for that little bit of knowledge that those who are claiming are now sat in class rooms, stood with a brush, doing 1 hours garden raking out of a day and just basically getting pulled from their comfort zone.

 

The overall benefit to us, is nothing.

The overall benefit to the Government, is to look good and look to be doing something as well as taking that little bit extra from your earnings and giving it to the newly made up work team, with fat cats on about 100 grand a year delegating the chores to those under them who will be on 30/40/50/60 e.t.c grand a year, all to oversee little dole people feel exploited and down right pissed off, some probably to the extremes of violence due to feeling used and abused, which is basically what it is.

 

When a population gets bigger, plus technology makes workers redundant, it's bound to create unemployment.

The majority of people want to work, yet there will be a branding of all unemployed because of the minority of shirkers who are clever enough to milk the system no matter what.

 

The easiest way to milk the system is to cry that you are dependent on alcohol or are a drug user. When I used to sign on, I would be tortured to find work, even though I was clearly bang at it.

The clear drug users who came in, who looked intimidating or talked like a drugged up charver, simply went over to the desk, , sat down and were handed the book to sign, then it was a "thank you, bye" and off they went.

 

Anyone who looked like they wanted work, were treated like THEY were the skivers and warned that not actively seeking work will affect their benefits.

 

The system is a pure load of shite and the real skivers will still skive, yet the real triers will continue to be smugly treated like shit.

Anyone who has signed on will know I'm telling the truth.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

I don't think vouchers and the like should be discounted out of hand simply because some examples haven't worked yet. Technology can make a lot of things more sophisticated and many are al ready used to using plastic pay cards for fuel or to pay bills at the corner shop.

 

Millions of children get free dinners, a pin pointed cashless benefit.

 

It's the job of the great and the good to keep trying until they make a system work rather than headline grabbing with silly stunts as most governments do.

 

I do agree however that Labour opening the flood gates to Europe didn't help.

[Park Life 71]

Vouchers don't work, America is a prime example of that - the work shy simply trade them, and the people who genuinely need them just end up feeling like shit. Expecting someone to pay for their milk using a voucher is not far off telling them to wear a yellow star. If you want to ensure they don't squander their benefits, the only way to do it is to either physically give them the goods, or pay their bills directly.

 

As for the rest, I seem to remember Labour claiming that the minimum wage would finally make work pay, ending the culture of dependency. That worked well then. The demand for minijobbing/job-sharing as well as the high levels of long term unemployed is a symptom of an over-regulated uncompetitive inflexible economy. Minijobbing is only less of an issue here because like the regular minumum wage jobs which are being filled by the legitimate Labour encouraged legal immigration, they are being taken up by all the illegals, inbetween all the other shadow jobs they're up to their necks in.

 

The same old cliches about over-regulation, immigration, lazyness...Welcome to 1982.

 

Europe on the whole has had its manufacturing and enterprise base ripped out. Germany is a high wage low unemployment economy so the tired old claptrap about regulation and wages simply doesn't hold water. The reality is that the labour market has essentially been outsorced to the far east and China. This was done peacemeal during the watch of various Govt and the same has happened in America. The grand strategy at play is Europe and the US will become importing economies and the east will carry on with the cheap labour pools and no workers rights. Big business will have it no other way regardless of what we want in our individual countries.

 

The UK will only compete in financial scenarios, some high tech and service industries and the US is settling into the militrary industrial complex mode. The task of the next decade will be to keep unemployment/meaingful employment under 10 million which will might sound alarming but those are the numbers under discussion - you only have to look at Spain and France to see how things are unfolding and what the future holds.

 

The strategic descision makers brook no loyalty to any country or zone and they have no oversight to worry about - none of them are politicians. American wages are essentially of the same value as they were in real terms in the 70's. Shocking? Some Americans are doing not two but three jobs to survive. Once nafta goes ahead fully what is left of american jobs will be farmed in the second wave of outsourcing to Mexico.

 

There is already agreement for 5 trade zones interlinked with supra-national purview. Profits will be protected and any country inc ours who tries to defend jobs through duties or tarrifs will be fined by the WTO and other bodies in infancy within the EU.

 

It's probably just easier to say people are lazy isn't it?

 

Quantum change must come but what will it be?

Edited September 19, 2012 by Park Life

[Renton 21643]

I don't think vouchers and the like should be discounted out of hand simply because some examples haven't worked yet. Technology can make a lot of things more sophisticated and many are al ready used to using plastic pay cards for fuel or to pay bills at the corner shop.

 

Millions of children get free dinners, a pin pointed cashless benefit.

 

It's the job of the great and the good to keep trying until they make a system work rather than headline grabbing with silly stunts as most governments do.

 

I do agree however that Labour opening the flood gates to Europe didn't help.

 

Eh? Surely you're not this ignorant? The free movement of labour came about by us being members of the EU so how and why are you blaming Labour for that? It works both ways as well and gives the likes of Chez to work freely in France, for instance. Get your facts right.

[Renton 21643]

The same old cliches about over-regulation, immigration, lazyness...Welcome to 1982.

 

Europe on the whole has had its manufacturing and enterprise base ripped out. Germany is a high wage low unemployment economy so the tired old claptrap about regulation and wages simply doesn't hold water. The reality is that the labour market has essentially been outsorced to the far east and China. This was done peacemeal during the watch of various Govt and the same has happened in America. The grand strategy at play is Europe and the US will become importing economies and the east will carry on with the cheap labour pools and no workers rights. Big business will have it no other way regardless of what we want in our individual countries.

 

The UK will only compete in financial scenarios, some high tech and service industries and the US is settling into the militrary industrial complex mode. The task of the next decade will be to keep unemployment/meaingful employment under 10 million which will might sound alarming but those are the numbers under discussion - you only have to look at Spain and France to see how things are unfolding and what the future holds.

 

The strategic descision makers brook no loyalty to any country or zone and they have no oversight to worry about - none of them are politicians. American wages are essentially of the same value as they were in real terms in the 70's. Shocking? Some Americans are doing not two but three jobs to survive. Once nafta goes ahead fully what is left of american jobs will be farmed in the second wave of outsourcing to Mexico.

 

There is already agreement for 5 trade zones interlinked with supra-national purview. Profits will be protected and any country inc ours who tries to defend jobs through duties or tarrifs will be fined by the WTO and other bodies in infancy within the EU.

 

Quantum change must come but what will it be?

 

I hope you're not right about this but concede you might be some of it.

[Park Life 71]

I know how Germany's success has been sustained I live there.

 

Your talking the same Thatcherite shite that even Cameron blushes at unless he disguises it.

 

One of the main reasons Germany exports apart from quality is due to the euro otherwise their stuff would be too expensive. The other thing is they pay their workers well enough so as to able to buy the stuff at home.

 

Really stop talking 80's rubbish. It hasn't worked it never will work.

[Renton 21643]

Relevant to this topic, has nobody noticed the government's plans for universal credit next year? Claimants are going to paid their benefits monthly rather than weekly, and tenants will receive housing benefits rather it being paid directly to landlords as it is at present. Aye, this is going to work just great, isn't it?

[Christmas Tree 4729]

Eh? Surely you're not this ignorant? The free movement of labour came about by us being members of the EU so how and why are you blaming Labour for that? It works both ways as well and gives the likes of Chez to work freely in France, for instance. Get your facts right.

 

You need to study your political history before calling others ignorant. Its a well publicised fact that Labour wanted mass imigration to make the UK more multi cultural. It was a secret policy that has since been acknowledged by Jack Straw and others and called a mistake by Red Ed. (And no I am not going to do your research for you before you ask.

 

But heres one because I like you...

 

Ed Miliband has admitted that Labour was too “dazzled” by globalisation while in government and that its ministers failed to stem a flood of migrants from eastern Europe, reports the FT.

 

Im sure you can remember at the time that other european countries realised a flood was likely and so put quotas on the numbers allowed in. We didnt.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[Meenzer 15561]

Im sure you can remember at the time that other european countries realised a flood was likely and so put quotas on the numbers allowed in. We didnt.

 

Not being tied to the single currency made our position stronger in that very specific context, for a start - unlike quota-imposing nations such as Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal, for whom things have worked out just terrifically. In terms of actual immigration, even the ever-exemplary Germans admit that the quotas and work permit stipulations they imposed in 2004 still led to them needing, approving and accepting just as many workers from those evil central European nations as other major member states without restrictions, e.g. us.

[Meenzer 15561]

Difference being that they needed them.

 

We're not as different as those who calculate their pollyticks using VIC-20s might think.

[Happy Face 29]

Relevant to this topic, has nobody noticed the government's plans for universal credit next year? Claimants are going to paid their benefits monthly rather than weekly, and tenants will receive housing benefits rather it being paid directly to landlords as it is at present. Aye, this is going to work just great, isn't it?

 

Been doing bits and bobs of work on uc for a year or so.

 

Seems to be the big priority.

[Renton 21643]

 

 

LOL. They export because the Euro is strong. And it's strong because? You dumbass.

 

Did our exports go up when the minimum wage was introduced? Did they bollocks.

 

Only an idiot would even try and compare the UK economy to the German one. There's never been a single point in the 20th century that they've even been remotely alike, you have to go all the way back to before the industrial revolution before you could ever claim such a thing.

 

The US has had the minimum wage for decades. What's your point there?

[Park Life 71]

LOL. They export because the Euro is strong. And it's strong because? You dumbass.

 

Did our exports go up when the minimum wage was introduced? Did they bollocks.

 

Only an idiot would even try and compare the UK economy to the German one. There's never been a single point in the 20th century that they've even been remotely alike, you have to go all the way back to before the industrial revolution before you could ever claim such a thing.

 

Dealing with the godzilla of idiots here.

 

It's not cause the euro is strong is it? If you don't understand the basics why try and come over all knowing?

 

I was using Ger just as an example of a high wage economy not comparing overall.

 

This is the usual idotic right wing nonsense your spouting about regulations and wages you won't be happy till we meet Vietnam in the race to the bottom.

 

What makes you think the german Govt doesn't subsidise industry btw? Or Japan for that matter...? How about China? They all do.

[Monkeys Fist 42482]

I find it ironic that the OP is bemoaning the existence of the benefit dependant underclass, when it was his Great Leader who created the very same underclass through a combination of her Right to Buy policy and the selling off of State owned industry.

 

Thatchers legacy? Charvers and sink estates.

[Renton 21643]

 

 

You need to study your political history before calling others ignorant. Its a well publicised fact that Labour wanted mass imigration to make the UK more multi cultural. It was a secret policy that has since been acknowledged by Jack Straw and others and called a mistake by Red Ed. (And no I am not going to do your research for you before you ask.

 

But heres one because I like you...

 

 

 

Im sure you can remember at the time that other european countries realised a flood was likely and so put quotas on the numbers allowed in. We didnt.

 

Well you're going to have to enlighten me some more because as far as I was aware it was John Major who signed up to the Maastricht treaty whose article 21 stated that members of the Union had free right of movement, employment and residence throughout all member states. If you're suggesting Lanour had the option to repeal article 21 then I'd like a link to a good source because I can't find one.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

 

Well you're going to have to enlighten me some more because as far as I was aware it was John Major who signed up to the Maastricht treaty whose article 21 stated that members of the Union had free right of movement, employment and residence throughout all member states. If you're suggesting Lanour had the option to repeal article 21 then I'd like a link to a good source because I can't find one.

 

A nice wriggle but not good enough. It was the acceptance of Easter European countries which caused the predicted flood. Labour were warned and other countries limited the amount they let in. We didn't. It's now well known though why we didn't re my last post.

 

You can wriggle all you like but every Labour politician says they got it wrong, including Balls and Miliband.

 

You just have to accept that on this occasion you're wrong.

[Christmas Tree 4729]

It's interesting btw how a post about how to solve a current problem and move forward quickly degenerates into the usual blame game that most MP's follow.

 

Refreshing to have someone like IDS looking at the whole benefit thing and trying to get all party support as he goes.

 

Must be a wretched task.

 

 

[Happy Face 29]

It's interesting btw how a post about how to solve a current problem and move forward quickly degenerates into the usual blame game that most MP's follow.

 

Refreshing to have someone like IDS looking at the whole benefit thing and trying to get all party support as he goes.

 

Must be a wretched task.

 

What problem are you solving with credit cards or vouchers? It causes a problem more than anything with the additional admin to introduce it for no savings whtsoever?

 

The only "problem" it solves is the niggle in your head that someone on benefit might enjoy a drink, a smoke and a lottery ticket.....the only pleasure they can afford on their miserable existence the poor sods.