Our Current Tactics.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

My understanding of the game on Saturday is that we started 442 and then changed to 433.

 

I assume we started 442 to try and accommodate Ba's wish to play more central, however when we changed to 443 we played better AND Ba scored.

 

Do we all think 433 is now our best formation or do we think it will still be chopped and changed from game to game.

 

I would guess playing 433 that this is my favoured line up.

 

Krul

 

Simpson Staylor Coloccini Santon

 

Tiote Cabaye Anita

 

Ben-Arfa Cisse Ba

 

Leaves some very good "First Teamers" on the bench in Jonas and Marveaux in particular.

[Happy Face 29]

I think its good to have both options and use them according to opposition and personell.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

It'll be chopped and changed depending on the opponent. As it should be.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

Aint you a barrel full of laughs tecato.

 

Feel free to contribute with a deano formation instead perhaps?

[Christmas Tree 4669]

If we go 442 then the team I would like to see is this.

 

Krul

 

Simpson Staylor Coloccini Santon

 

HBA Tiote Cabaye Marveaux

 

Cisse Ba

[Happy Face 29]

Obertan over HBA and you have it.

[Monroe Transfer 0]

Aint you a barrel full of laughs tecato.

 

What are you on about now?

 

He asked a question and I answered it.

 

Feel free to get bored of this place and leave again.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Monroe Transfer

[Phil 6]

4-4-2 is very out dated and as we saw on Saturday you get over run when you play against a 4-3-3. I can only imagine it was for Ba's benefit.

 

Two holding midfielders like City would plays to our strengths;

 

 

 

Krul

 

Simpson Staylor Coloccini Santon

 

Tiote Anita

 

HBA Cabaye Ba

 

Cisse

 

 

It would also give HBA the freedom to roam and Ba to stay forward;

[Park Life 71]

Obertan over HBA and you have it.

 

Mischivious mood eh?

[toonotl 2916]

I think we started 442 to keep things tight in the first half and then switched to 433 to have a go at them in the second. 433 looked better and it generally will because it allows us to play a shorter passing style of game. Whereas the 442 allowed Jonas and HBA to provide our fullbacks with some extra cover against Spurs wingers who Pards was obviously worried about.

[StoneColdStephenIreland 74]

We have to go 4-3-3, each time we play it we look a lot more comfortable and it gets the best out of the players. It lets us control the game in the middle of the park which we were shocking at doing in the first half against Spurs, but when we switched we played like a different team and players always had an option to pass too

[Meenzer 15346]

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/08/20/newcastle-2-1-tottenham-pardew-switches-formation-ben-arfa-excels-in-both-systems/

[OTF 7214]

My understanding of the game on Saturday is that we started 442 and then changed to 433.

 

I assume we started 442 to try and accommodate Ba's wish to play more central, however when we changed to 443 we played better AND Ba scored.

 

Do we all think 433 is now our best formation or do we think it will still be chopped and changed from game to game.

 

I would guess playing 433 that this is my favoured line up.

 

Krul

 

Simpson Staylor Coloccini Santon

 

Tiote Cabaye Anita

 

Ben-Arfa Cisse Ba

 

Leaves some very good "First Teamers" on the bench in Jonas and Marveaux in particular.

 

You're obsessed with leaving Jonas out, and yet on the weekend he was our second best player behind only Ben Arfa. The amount of free-kicks he wins is phenomenal (most in the league?) and his work rate cannot be faulted. Sprinted back to cover for Santon on at least one occassion against Spurs. You've seen Anita for 20 odd minutes where he was overall positive but a little over-awed and you're already hoiking poor old Jonas. CT I have to ask - what is it you have against him?

 

Formation wise I think we'll see changes throughout the season based on who we're playing and which players we have available. Implementations of 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 can be quite similar at any length depending on the ability of the players to get up and down the pitch and the extent to which they focus on attack or defense.

 

With Ben Arfa out there we need to be able to give him freedom to operate all over the pitch - perhaps in a 4-3-3 he's able to do this without upsetting the balance of the side defensively as much and for that reason alone it could be work it.

 

I don't think the decision to play 4-4-2 would have been heavily influenced by wanting to play Ba centrally, more like;y by having more players in the midfield which is where some would argue the strength of Spurs is - a 4-3-3 normally wouldn't offer great protection to the fullbacks which is something you would certainly be wanting against Tottenham who have Bale, Lennon and a pair of quick fullbacks who like to push up the pitch.

 

Funnily enough Ba scored from a Simpson cross, of which he actually put in more than one dangerous one! Defensively he still had his shortcomings, but recovered well and overall had the most work to do of our defense.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

Theres no point spending time going over this.

 

The 433 has definitely brought the best out of him, but I would still prefer a "proper" midfielder there and it sounds from many sources, as though we have found one in Anita.

 

In a 442 I think he is like the last few years, very frustrating. Creates very little and end product usually crap. I would rather have a player there who can skip a challenge a create goals rather than get tackled all the time.

 

I totally understand that you and quite a few others disagree which is fine. No point really wasting any more time arguing the same old point.

[OTF 7214]

In a 442 I think he is like the last few years, very frustrating. Creates very little and end product usually crap. I would rather have a player there who can skip a challenge a create goals rather than get tackled all the time.

 

He's the most fouled player in the whole of the league. Him getting 'tackled' more or less means we win a free-kick which creates a scoring opportunity - and equates to end product from Jonas. If other teams could handle him he'd not get fouled. That clearly isn't the case so removing him from the side would not only be taking out an everpresent who works his butt off and creates plenty of opportunities but would also be making it easier for other teams.

 

Anita will and should be used for his midfield versatility and to cover for times when the likes of Tiote and Cabaye are injured/suspended/unavailable.

[Lake Bells tits 1]

He is but he also causes alot of attacks to fizzle into nothing. He struggles to get past players and his crossing and end product is poor.

I rate him because of his efforts but there are better options going forward ( which being the 5th best team in the league we should be doing quite alot)

Edited August 22, 2012 by Lake Bells tits

[Christmas Tree 4669]

He is but he also makes alot of attacks fizzle into nothing. He struggles to get past players and his crossing and end product is poor.

I rate him because of his efforts but there are better options going forward ( which being the 5th best team in the league we should be doing quite alot)

 

Spot on.

 

The point is these free kicks he "wins" allow the opposition to regroup and defend. If he could skip past the tackle and slide a ball in for whoever then we would have more chance of scoring.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Christmas Tree

[Lake Bells tits 1]

What are you on about now?

 

He asked a question and I answered it.

 

Feel free to get bored of this place and leave again.

 

Would be nice to see a formation thats all. No need for unpleasantries

[Lake Bells tits 1]

He's the most fouled player in the whole of the league. Him getting 'tackled' more or less means we win a free-kick which creates a scoring opportunity - and equates to end product from Jonas. If other teams could handle him he'd not get fouled. That clearly isn't the case so removing him from the side would not only be taking out an everpresent who works his butt off and creates plenty of opportunities but would also be making it easier for other teams.

 

Anita will and should be used for his midfield versatility and to cover for times when the likes of Tiote and Cabaye are injured/suspended/unavailable.

 

He gets fouled because he is good at keeping the ball, but not very good at doing something with it. In terms of opportunities the best I usually hope for from Jonas is a freekick, which nice as it is lowers the pace of the game and allows the other team to set up for defending rather than hit them on a break.

 

Personally I would love two pacy trick wingers on each side, like Manure have. Nothing against Jonas but that he is not.

[Happy Face 29]

Mischivious mood eh?

 

 

As has already been said, it's basically another CT Jonas bashing thread. Didn't deserve much more than a piss-take response.

 

He's decided Marveaux should own the left wing when he's had 1 league start since arriving....a game which I don't know if CT even saw.

 

Last year was one of Guttierez's best for us, and he's done well most years, and started well this year.

[Guest CabayeAye]

Without a shadow of a doubt, 433 is out best formation. The 442 didn't work at all last season, and it didn't work during the first half on Saturday. I don't like the two holding midfielders in the 4231, it's too negative for our style and Ba would never want to play as a winger rather than a wide striker. Whether you play Jonas or not is immaterial, we will have enough games and injuries this season to require us to rotate almost everyone through the starting XI.

 

Krul Harper Elliott

Simpson Tavernier Colo Saylor Williamson Perch Santon Raylor

Tiote Anita

Cabaye Anita Jonas Amalfitano Bigirimana Abeid

Ben Arfa Cisse Ba Marveaux Ameobi Sameobi Campbell Obertan

 

Even if we were playing our 2nd XI, I would still much rather see the 433 in action. The only way I'd want to see the 442 used is against a suspect CB pair with either Ameobi or Carroll (if we buy him!) in the team.

[Christmas Tree 4669]

 

 

As has already been said, it's basically another CT Jonas bashing thread. Didn't deserve much more than a piss-take response.

 

He's decided Marveaux should own the left wing when he's had 1 league start since arriving....a game which I don't know if CT even saw.

 

Last year was one of Guttierez's best for us, and he's done well most years, and started well this year.

 

Leaving Jonas out of my preferred 11 does not equate to Jonas bashing.

 

I acknowledged last year was his best year, but half of that was almost playing as a second left back to cover a crap left back. The second half was doing a decent attempt as a midfielder in a 433.

 

Decent btw but decent needs improving upon if we are going to do better.

 

Anita (from what those who know him well say) is going to give u's that improvement in a 433.

 

With regard to Marveaux of course he has to prove himself but he needs to be on the pitch to do it!

 

What little I have seen of him, be that him setting up goals for Cabaye or sublimely exchanging passes with Ben Arfa, he looks a quality player.

 

Nobody disputes the graft Jonas puts in but enough people over time and today have highlighted other areas of his game which are not as good.

 

Not everything has to be about Jonas

[Guest CabayeAye]

Leaving Jonas out of my preferred 11 does not equate to Jonas bashing.

 

I acknowledged last year was his best year, but half of that was almost playing as a second left back to cover a crap left back. The second half was doing a decent attempt as a midfielder in a 433.

 

Decent btw but decent needs improving upon if we are going to do better.

 

Anita (from what those who know him well say) is going to give u's that improvement in a 433.

 

With regard to Marveaux of course he has to prove himself but he needs to be on the pitch to do it!

 

What little I have seen of him, be that him setting up goals for Cabaye or sublimely exchanging passes with Ben Arfa, he looks a quality player.

 

Nobody disputes the graft Jonas puts in but enough people over time and today have highlighted other areas of his game which are not as good.

 

Not everything has to be about Jonas

 

Sorry mate, but Jonas has repeatedly proved himself to be a quality player. It is tempting to label him a square peg in a round hole whilst he is playing as part of a midfield 3, but the fact of the matter remains, he has re-invented himself and is comfortable and highly effective playing as a LM, LWB or a LW.

[Meenzer 15346]

How does someone end up with "u's" in their predictive anyway?

[Dr Gloom 21757]

Jonas is in the first team on merit.

 

As far as the system goes, 433 seems to suit us better. But if we play that way there's an argument for only playing one of Ba or Cisse and playing two natural wide men with one line striker.