Meenzer 15432 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Bit harsh on Renton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oh christ, I've just remembered "Rention" and "manc-foplite". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 This thread is amazing: http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/22679-gemmil-to-get-a-10-bonus-this-friday/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Â Â None of what you say detracts from the logic that very advanced civs by thier very nature are unlikely to be war mongering luddites which is my main point. Â I love this logic and agree. It reminds of the introduction to Transition by Banks, on 'how to capture an alien'. The logic is very much like your own that Aliens who have conquered intergalactic space travel will be reasonable beings otherwise evolution would have rooted out their civilisation. Therefore, being reasonable beings they are likely to have quite cultured pursuits and enjoy visiting places for the cultural enrichment and possibly, decent beaches with a nice bar to chill out next to. Given how essentially wank most of the earth is, if there are Aliens and they are traveling and they are coming to earth, the most likely explanation for them visiting us is the one amazing feature of this corner of the solar system and galaxy; the solar corona of a total solar eclipse. Â This solar corona is caused by some pretty incredible coincidences. For the moon to hide the sun and for us to be able to see a Corona, the moon has to be the perfect distance between the earth and the sun and the perfect size for it to completely block the sun but allow the naked eye to see the corona. Its a coincidence of massive proportions, millions or billions to one chance of having the exact dimensions between 3 celestial bodies. Â So, given the rarity of the sight and its beauty, you would expect our holiday-loving, cultured Aliens to visit the earth to observe this rare and fascinating feature. So if you want to capture an Alien look out for weird looking people in ill-fitting clothes hanging out at the back of solar eclipse crowds. They're the aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 They could at least have the decency to say hello. Bloody freeloaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Pedantic/curious mode. Â "Its a coincidence of massive proportions, millions or billions to one chance of having the exact dimensions between 3 celestial bodies." Â How's that derived? The sun is roughly 400 times the diameter of the moon and the moon is roughly 400 times nearer the Earth, hence this phenomena. The moon is moving away from the Earth, so it just happens we are living at the right time (in a million year or so time frame) to observe it, but it was inevitably going to happen regardless of the size and distance of the (two, not three) objects concerned. Â It's a coincidence, yes, but really a billions to one chance? I doubt it personally, but there must be millions of planets in our galaxy that currently have solar eclipses too. Â Just thought I'd mention this as I've heard it said the eclipse proves all sorts, including the existence of God. People just aren't good at understanding random chance and coincidence. Â I saw the last one in France as it happens, utterly bizarre experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 30370 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Or maybe it's all part of a grand design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I was précising Banks ffs.  You obviously googled it, have a look for the odds yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42129 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Weird looking people in ill fitting clothes usually make up 90% of eclipse crowds. Hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Parky mentioned "inhabitable" planets, but doesn't that suggestion rest on our notion of life? Is it plausible that an alien species evolved to tolerate a different way of extracting what they need from their environment, and thus don't fit our current description of "life"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Renton, it is the 'size and distance' of 3 bodies not 2. If you want to be pedantic, be correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Parky mentioned "inhabitable" planets, but doesn't that suggestion rest on our notion of life? Is it plausible that an alien species evolved to tolerate a different way of extracting what they need from their environment, and thus don't fit our current description of "life"? Oh yeah of course. Our concept of 'life' is probably laughably narrow. It wasn't so long ago creatures were discovered living in underground geezers at the bottom of the ocean bed which we thought were uninhabitable due to temp and chemical toxicity. There are microbes that 'eat' oil. Â Currently the main proviso for detecting habitable planets is the sweet zone (distance from sun) around distant stars ie just the temp for water to exist and size ie big enough to have an atmosphere. Yet there is a lot of talk of there being life on Europa which doesn't fit the model at all. Â A truly advanced civ would create its own habitats however and could live practically anywhere if it so chose. Hell it might even create habitats for life to develop randomly for a laugh. It might even giggle at increasing the spin/tamper with the core of Mars so it starts rekindling a new atmosphere. Edited January 22, 2014 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I also think the probability is also very low, there are candidate moons around Uranus, Saturn etc but the solar eclipse's there will look shit as the sun is so far away. Â The closer you are to the sun, the larger the moon needs to be which would preclude the existence of the moon as they cant (or shouldnt be) too close in size to the host planet. Â So the eclipse requires a certain distance from the earth, moon and sun simultaneously to create a visual sight worth seeing since a tiny eclipse from a tiny moon in the outer reaches of a a solar system is not worth traveling at the speed of light for, particularly because of the digestive problems caused by coming out of warp speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I also think the probability is also very low, there are candidate moons around Uranus, Saturn etc but the solar eclipse's there will look shit as the sun is so far away. Â The closer you are to the sun, the larger the moon needs to be which would preclude the existence of the moon as they cant (or shouldnt be) too close in size to the host planet. Â So the eclipse requires a certain distance from the earth, moon and sun simultaneously to create a visual sight worth seeing since a tiny eclipse from a tiny moon in the outer reaches of a a solar system is not worth traveling at the speed of light for, particularly because of the digestive problems caused by coming out of warp speed. Ah yes 'warp sickness'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 10779 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Oh yeah of course. Our concept of 'life' is probably laughably narrow. It wasn't so long ago creatures were discovered living in underground geezers at the bottom of the ocean bed which we thought were uninhabitable due to temp and chemical toxicity. There are microbes that 'eat' oil. Â Currently the main proviso for detecting habitable planets is the sweet zone (distance from sun) around distant stars ie just the temp for water to exist and size ie big enough to have an atmosphere. Yet there is a lot of talk of there being life on Europa which doesn't fit the model at all. Â A truly advanced civ would create its own habitats however and could live practically anywhere if it so chose. Hell it might even create habitats for life to develop randomly for a laugh. It might even giggle at increasing the spin/tamper with the core of Mars so it starts rekindling a new atmosphere. I have a vague memory of someone explaining how they determined whether the planet had life-sustaining atmosphere, Anyone know if I'm miles off? Â Scientists point a whopping great big telescope at a star, when the planets that orbit that star pass beween the star and the telescope, the amount the light dims can be used as a means to measure the elements within the atmosphere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Yup that's part of it and something to do with wobble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21393 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 @Chez post 2367.  Having a fucking nightmare with this board not allowing me to post and/or deleting my posts today, and I can't even cut and paste, so I'll try a précised post of the one that's just disappeared. What relevance is the size of the Earth during a solar eclipse? None. The only relevant parameters are the size of the moon, the sun, and their relative distance from the Earth. This boils down to just two ratios coinciding. Also, the moon has to be near the Earth to stabilise it and allow advanced life to develop, so its a good example of the weak anthropic principle.  Oh, and Sunderland have just beaten ManU on penalties, the cunts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 42129 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 @Chez post 2367.  Having a fucking nightmare with this board not allowing me to post and/or deleting my posts today, and I can't even cut and paste, so I'll try a précised post of the one that's just disappeared. What relevance is the size of the Earth during a solar eclipse? None. The only relevant parameters are the size of the moon, the sun, and their relative distance from the Earth. This boils down to just two ratios coinciding. Also, the moon has to be near the Earth to stabilise it and allow advanced life to develop, so its a good example of the weak anthropic principle.  Oh, and Sunderland have just beaten ManU on penalties, the cunts. Even on Gliese 581g they're pissing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7073 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Even on Gliese 581g they're pissing themselves. Tbf they always do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Rents man you've not read the posts properly and you've answered your own question. The important words which I did repeat for you were 'size and distance'. The distance between the earth, the moon and the sun is an important factor. That's 3, not 2. Size of the body your standing on obviously doesnt matter but distance does. Â If you don't like it, write to Iain Banks' estate to complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Earth is in what's called the "goldilocks zone" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They say Mars had an atmosphere in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 15432 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 So did Russ Abbot  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trooper 940 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They say Mars had an atmosphere in the past. The theory now is that we are actually aliens on earth and we came here when Mars lost all its water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The theory now is that we are actually aliens on earth and we came here when Mars lost all its water. Yeah heard that one. It will be possible in the future to give Mars a new atmosphere at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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