Moon Landings

[wolfy 12]

Fish:

A lot of science is unseen but the theories behind it are there on paper. It's down to the individual to go with what's written and told or to look for an alternative.

Most go with what's written because that's what everyone in any one country is taught to go with and frowned upon if they dare challenge it.

 

The same goes for religion. You are conditioned to believe in 'a God' who you have never seen but it's all written. Challenge it and you are frowned upon.

[The Fish 10965]

Fish:

A lot of science is unseen but the theories behind it are there on paper. It's down to the individual to go with what's written and told or to look for an alternative.

Most go with what's written because that's what everyone in any one country is taught to go with and frowned upon if they dare challenge it.

 

The same goes for religion. You are conditioned to believe in 'a God' who you have never seen but it's all written. Challenge it and you are frowned upon.

I'll try that again.

 

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, you can prove the Earth is roughly spherical. One is faith, the other is science.

[wolfy 12]

I'll try that again.

 

You cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, you can prove the Earth is roughly spherical. One is faith, the other is science.

Have you ever seen an atom?

Can you prove an atom exists?

[The Fish 10965]

Have you ever seen an atom?

Can you prove an atom exists?

I have not.

Yes I can.

 

How do people really know that atoms exist even though they can't see them?

No one has ever really seen an atom. Humans like to see something before they believe in it. I am sure there are some people who object to that since there have been claims that electron microscopes have imaged atoms. I believe that illuminating an object with electrons, capturing those electrons and recreating an image is also indirect evidence. Just imagine a primitive human. We'll call him Og. Just having a fifth grade education would make you a genius compared to Og. But Og, being human and kind of hairy, has one thing really powerful in his favor. He has an overpowering curiosity. Og wonders about almost everything. Og is bothered by everything he knows he doesn't know. Og does know that the world is made up of lots of different things and sometimes those things can change. For instance if you burn wood it turns to ash and ash is different from wood. Eventually Og, or perhaps one of his descendants, learns to make a stone knife and learns to cut things. Og's teenage son is playing with Og's stone knife trying to see how small he can cut an object.

This was probably repeated thousands of times before we also learned to write and share information. Then around 400 BC a greek dude named Democritus came up with the idea that something could be cut into it's smallest piece and it would still be the same object. He was also the first person to write the word atom down. For these reasons Democritus was given credit for the idea and the name. Those ancient Greeks became really good at sitting around thinking, but they weren't all that good at building instruments to prove their thoughts and ideas. It took a few thousand years, until just recently when we got good enough at making machines that we could prove Democritus' atom theory. Can you imagine that? He came up with an idea, but it took 2,400 years before anyone figured out that he was right!

Now I said no one has seen an atom, but we have seen so much evidence of their existence that most of us believe in them. Most of the experiments, like those here at Jefferson Lab, work by bouncing something off an atom, like an electron, and watching where the electron goes after it bounces out of the atom. Of course, an electron is smaller than an atom, so it would seem to get trickier. An electron is actually pretty easy to see since it leaves tracks in many things. Using those tracks, we can build a pretty nice picture of an atom. The story is typical in science and many human endeavors. Someone comes up with an idea and then tries to prove it. One could argue that Columbus' trip was an experiment to prove or disprove his theory that India could be reached by sailing West from Europe.

The end of our primitive story is that Og's son accidentally cut himself with the knife. Og caught him playing with the knife and grounded him for a week.

Author:

Brian Kross, Chief Detector Engineer (Other answers by Brian Kross)

 

Have you ever seen a radio wave, can you prove it exists? Yet you believe in them. This is where your stance becomes ridiculous.

 

There's more to the universe than meekly mewling "Seeing is believing"

[wolfy 12]

Fish:

I asked you two very simple questions.

 

1. I asked you if you have ever seen an atom. ......You said NO.

 

2. I asked if you could prove an atom exists and you come up with YES.

 

Then you bring up a big story about og (who was a canny lad by the way, in his day) and in between og (the canny lad) you cannot prove an atom exists.

[Gejon 2]

Not religious at all but I do see the good faith does which a few years ago I didn't see at all.

 

As with most things in life faith creates division which is a massive shame because it could create a very developed culture if the religions worked together to spread the teachings rather than have a 'my dad is bigger than yours' attitude between each other.

 

As said, I was massively against religion and I still think it has gone too far in some aspects to push individual agendas but faith could (with a lot of give and take) really improve how we are and how we treat each other.

 

It will never happen but if there was a realistic standard within society we could all live a relatively comfortable life. Most religions are far too strict on certain aspects which either puts people off or makes people semi-committed. You give people realistic expectations but with an equally realistic structure we could potentially make it acceptable to force each other to live as respectable human beings. This doesn't have to be through religion just a respectable code that the majority follow leaving the ignorant minority with no choice but to.

[wolfy 12]

I do admit though Fish... Obviously you have FAITH that the atom exists, which is fair enough.

[The Fish 10965]

I do admit though Fish... Obviously you have FAITH that the atom exists, which is fair enough.

Again, You're getting it wrong.

 

It is provable so it's not faith, it's not my fault you're not bright enough to follow a simple argument. I tried to make it real simple.

 

You can show the existence of atoms by bouncing electrons off it and watching how their path changes.

You know that Radio Waves exist because you see an oscilloscope record them, or you hear the music.

 

You're just doing what less bright people do, you plug your fingers in your ears and ignore the demonstrable. You won't even go watch out for the ISS because if you were to, you know your theory would be instantly disproved.

[wolfy 12]

Again, You're getting it wrong.

 

It is provable so it's not faith, it's not my fault you're not bright enough to follow a simple argument. I tried to make it real simple.

 

You can show the existence of atoms by bouncing electrons off it and watching how their path changes.

You know that Radio Waves exist because you see an oscilloscope record them, or you hear the music.

 

You're just doing what less bright people do, you plug your fingers in your ears and ignore the demonstrable. You won't even go watch out for the ISS because if you were to, you know your theory would be instantly disproved.

Fish:

 

How do you know that electrons bounce off atoms if you cannot see them and also, how in the hell did they manage to split the atom if they cannot see the atom.

 

I've told you before about the ISS. All you can see is a blob of light. If you believe you see a space station shape then good on you.

[wolfy 12]

Oh and in 400 BC a Greek dude imagined an atom and decided to call it an atom, even though he was sat there and today, thanks to him, we can split the little bastard but still can't see it.

 

That's like me shooting my neutron arrow at my invisible atom target and marking a pretend bullseye down, then telling my opponent, " look! I got a bull, alright like, don't be starting me and making out I'm lying, I won and your neutron arrow missed so there" lol

[wolfy 12]

This is the problem with science.

We are spun a big yarn and we go along with it no matter how stupid it sounds.

[The Fish 10965]

Fish:

 

How do you know that electrons bounce off atoms if you cannot see them and also, how in the hell did they manage to split the atom if they cannot see the atom.

You can see the effect electrons have on things, just like you can't see the wind or magnetism but you can see the effect they have on things. This is the major problem with anything you say; your total lack of consistency.

 

 

I've told you before about the ISS. All you can see is a blob of light. If you believe you see a space station shape then good on you.

We've shown you pictures taken by amateurs of what is definitely a man-made structure. Blobs of light don't look like man-made structures. Go and look up where and when the ISS will be travelling over head, look at it through binoculars, or admit that your "big yarn" is infinitely more stupid sounding than the truth.

 

One day you don't believe in gravity, the next you're talking about it as if you'd always believed in it. One day you're stating you know something 100%, the next you don't believe anything can bee known 100%

 

Admit it wolfy, you've not a fucking clue about any of this. Your theory about radio relays providing the service we get from satellites is lunacy and I (and others) have cited example after example which categorically disproves it. Yet you blithely refuse to accept these statements and instead concoct some incredible (in the truest sense of the word) fantasy whereby the provable and demonstrable laws of physics cease to function.

 

That you can't see your staggering hypocrisy is worrisome.

Edited August 16, 2012 by The Fish

[wolfy 12]

You can see the effect electrons have on things, just like you can't see the wind or magnetism but you can see the effect they have on things. This is the major problem with anything you say; your total lack of consistency.

......................

You can see the effects electrons have on things?...you mentioned electrons not me. I asked you if you had seen an atom. Electrons banging into stuff is not seeing an atom which was my simple question.

 

 

We've shown you pictures taken by amateurs of what is definitely a man-made structure. Blobs of light don't look like man-made structures. Go and look up where and when the ISS will be travelling over head, look at it through binoculars, or admit that your "big yarn" is infinitely more stupid sounding than the truth.

.................................

Shown me pictures taken by amateurs...come on man, you should know better than to pass of an object as the ISS took from a telescope. The pictures look exactly what they are. FAKE.

 

One day you don't believe in gravity, the next you're talking about it as if you'd always believed in it. One day you're stating you know something 100%, the next you don't believe anything can bee known 100%

 

............................

I've never once said I don't believe in gravity, I said I don't know what gravity consists of except a theory just the same as others don't know what it is, yet I said we know it's there because if we jump up, we come back down.

I said anything outside of this Earth can't be known 100%

 

Admit it wolfy, you've not a fucking clue about any of this. Your theory about radio relays providing the service we get from satellites is lunacy and I (and others) have cited example after example which categorically disproves it. Yet you blithely refuse to accept these statements and instead concoct some incredible (in the truest sense of the word) fantasy whereby the provable and demonstrable laws of physics cease to function.

...........................

It depends on what you regard as having a clue. In your mind I haven't a clue because you follow what you are told and accept it.....I don't.

I'm certain in my mind that your job does not require satellites but if you want to believe it, carry on, I have no problem with that.

With all due respect to you Fish, I don't accept the statements given out by N.A.S.A so don't be surprised that I don't go along with yours on here when the evidence proves to me tells me it's falsified for reasons already stated.

 

 

 

That you can't see your staggering hypocrisy is worrisome.

There's is no hypocrisy as far as I'm concerned but if you think there is, then I can't help that.

[luckyluke 2]

I've seen an atom.

[LoveTheBobby 1]

I can see the sea !

[trophyshy 7084]

I can see the pub from here.

[ewerk 31204]

[Meenzer 15719]

I can see Russia from my back yard.

[trophyshy 7084]

It's going to be a bright, bright, sunshiney day.

[Brock Manson 0]

I can see clearly now the rain has gone.

 

Edit - bollocks, too slow!

[The Fish 10965]

You can see the effects electrons have on things?...you mentioned electrons not me. I asked you if you had seen an atom. Electrons banging into stuff is not seeing an atom which was my simple question.

 

I can't believe you can't follow the argument. You can't see the wind but you can see the effects it has on things, yet you believe in it. You can't see atoms yet you can see the effect they have on things and you don't believe in them. Hypocrisy.

 

 

Shown me pictures taken by amateurs...come on man, you should know better than to pass of an object as the ISS took from a telescope. The pictures look exactly what they are. FAKE.

 

They don't look fake at all, and yet again you're avoiding the resolution to all of this, simply because the answer you're afraid of will be revealed. Go look up when and where the ISS will next pass overhead and look at it through binoculars. Also, that you're flitting between saying the image is fake and saying the images are blobs of light, further prove your assertions are bullshit.

 

I've never once said I don't believe in gravity, I said I don't know what gravity consists of except a theory just the same as others don't know what it is, yet I said we know it's there because if we jump up, we come back down.

I said anything outside of this Earth can't be known 100%

Bollocks, You've said that you don't believe in gravity, you believe it's electromagnetism. Showing a lack of understanding of gravity, electromagnetism, arguments and/or the English language.

 

It depends on what you regard as having a clue. In your mind I haven't a clue because you follow what you are told and accept it.....I don't.

I'm certain in my mind that your job does not require satellites but if you want to believe it, carry on, I have no problem with that.

You haven't a clue because you're told something and blithely refuse to believe, despite the overwhelming evidence that supports it. You're the only with the closed mind sunshine, not I. Given you haven't a clue about my job, how can you possibly be certain in your mind about any facet of it?

 

 

With all due respect to you Fish, I don't accept the statements given out by N.A.S.A so don't be surprised that I don't go along with yours on here when the evidence proves to me tells me it's falsified for reasons already stated.

Then why ask the questions? You don't want answers, you want a platform upon which to spout your lunacy. By the way, what do your friends/family think of your standpoint? If the people that profess to love you permit you to carry on in this way, I'd have severe concerns for the lot of you.

 

Oh and finally, there is NO evidence that proves ANYTHING you've stated. None what so ever. That you declare a photo as faked, doesn't make it so, that you declare a satellite constellation as impossible doesn't make it so. What staggering arrogance you must have to think that may be the case.

Edited August 16, 2012 by The Fish

[Howmanheyman 33845]

Let it go, Fishy, just let it go, man.

 

You'll feel much better for it.

[Gemmill 46031]

Fish man, where did it all go wrong?

[wolfy 12]

You can see the effects electrons have on things?...you mentioned electrons not me. I asked you if you had seen an atom. Electrons banging into stuff is not seeing an atom which was my simple question.

 

I can't believe you can't follow the argument. You can't see the wind but you can see the effects it has on things, yet you believe in it. You can't see atoms yet you can see the effect they have on things and you don't believe in them. Hypocrisy.

......................................

You can work with wind, it's there for all to see it's effects. An atom is something that was made up by someone supposedly from 400bc and he called it an atom even though there was nothing to suggest such a thing exists and there still isn't. A weak use there like.

 

 

 

 

Shown me pictures taken by amateurs...come on man, you should know better than to pass of an object as the ISS took from a telescope. The pictures look exactly what they are. FAKE.

 

They don't look fake at all, and yet again you're avoiding the resolution to all of this, simply because the answer you're afraid of will be revealed. Go look up when and where the ISS will next pass overhead and look at it through binoculars. Also, that you're flitting between saying the image is fake and saying the images are blobs of light, further prove your assertions are bullshit.

.....................................

No answers will be revealed about a space station being real unless they show us the model on Earth. The one in the training pool. Can you spot the so called space station without anyone telling you when it's due to pass overhead?

The images are a simple blob of light, now what that is, is anyone's guess...what it isn't, is a space station as far as I'm concerned.

 

I've never once said I don't believe in gravity, I said I don't know what gravity consists of except a theory just the same as others don't know what it is, yet I said we know it's there because if we jump up, we come back down.

I said anything outside of this Earth can't be known 100%

Bollocks, You've said that you don't believe in gravity, you believe it's electromagnetism. Showing a lack of understanding of gravity, electromagnetism, arguments and/or the English language.

..............................

I said we are stuck to this planet by some kind of static and electromagnetism and gave that as a theory, not a fact. I also said, nobody actually knows what gravity is, except they named it gravity to describe objects falling to Earth.

 

It depends on what you regard as having a clue. In your mind I haven't a clue because you follow what you are told and accept it.....I don't.

I'm certain in my mind that your job does not require satellites but if you want to believe it, carry on, I have no problem with that.

You haven't a clue because you're told something and blithely refuse to believe, despite the overwhelming evidence that supports it. You're the only with the closed mind sunshine, not I. Given you haven't a clue about my job, how can you possibly be certain in your mind about any facet of it?

 

..........................

 

There is no overwhelming evidence to support it though, there's more overwhelming evidence that it's all fake.

I could say the same about yourself being told something and blindly believing it though couldn't I , yet you will steadfastly say you are correct because you are in the majority, which proves nothing at all, except that many people go with the flow in life with mostly everything the media throw out and especially N.A.S.A science.

I haven't a clue about your job, you are correct on that but then I don't need to...I just know in my mind that your job doesn't involve the use of satellites to do it, no matter what they've told you. What you believe to be true is your prerogative.

 

 

With all due respect to you Fish, I don't accept the statements given out by N.A.S.A so don't be surprised that I don't go along with yours on here when the evidence proves to me tells me it's falsified for reasons already stated.

Then why ask the questions? You don't want answers, you want a platform upon which to spout your lunacy. By the way, what do your friends/family think of your standpoint? If the people that profess to love you permit you to carry on in this way, I'd have severe concerns for the lot of you.

.................................

I got an answer to my question. I asked you if you had seen an atom and you said no...which I accepted as I know you are right because nobody else has seen one either, yet they can split them and use them in bombs and reactors without having a clue what they are using because they cannot see them, which makes their attempts to split something they don;t know is there a mockery but it fools the masses because if they can't see it..we can't see it so it's a perfect magic trick for them to pull their strokes on the tax paying public.

 

The concerns you have for my friends and family I can only leave you to ponder over. If you're really worried about them, you can write your thoughts down and I will pass it on to them and get back to you, or leave your number and I'll ask them to give you a call to ease your mind.

..............................................

Oh and finally, there is NO evidence that proves ANYTHING you've stated. None what so ever. That you declare a photo as faked, doesn't make it so, that you declare a satellite constellation as impossible doesn't make it so. What staggering arrogance you must have to think that may be the case.

The evidence of space travel being a con job is plenty enough for me.

 

As for photo's of shuttles in space, ISS and Earth from space e.t.c is fake. I'll say again though...what you think is true is entirely up to you.

 

As far as arrogance is concerned, I'd say I'm very easy going but I'm strong willed and have strong opinions that cannot be shredded by people who try to display an arrogance against me to make me see it their way.

Edited August 16, 2012 by wolfy

[Howmanheyman 33845]

Fish man, where did it all go wrong?

Ah Knaa!!

 

Fancy arguing FOREVER with someone who is RIGHT and who was RIGHT for years!

 

You'd never do that would you, Gem?