Park Life 71 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 totally agree. What's more is that their group devotion to patriotism dumbs the fact of this individualism down, creating a notion of this perfect middle ground of 'freedom' that is at once 'in it together as americans' and dangerously warped version of the american dream where selfishness prevails. From the classroom daily recitals of the pledge of allegiance from the age of 5 to the national anthem before baseball games, their rhetoric is infused with this faux patriotism that on surface lends itself to a big society coming together under the blanket of 'the flag', when in actual fact it is blind ignorance. Whenever i go over there to see my dad, it shocks me at how militaristic the place is... you cant avoid it. I know that that is a bit of a well-known viewpoint when people go over there, but fuck me, everywhere there is references to violence and war. It's like this weird voyeuristic thing about war, the country still retains a kind of attraction to it. And it is really selective as well - there are no notable remembrances or even acknowledgements about atrocities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and quell any possible feelings of guilt by stating that it was necessary. This is a totally different argument which i don't want to get into, but if you are going to take pride in your national history, if you can feel proud of something your great ancestors achieved or did, then you must simultaneously feel their shame as well. That isn't to say that all americans are like that. Far from it. But the country needs to shift its emphasis of self-interrogation towards what they lack, rather than what they offer. Their notion of 'freedom' is like an umbrella term for anything anyone likes it to be really. It is really interesting, because the word has taken on so many new meanings, not least by the republicans, that use it often as a means to get the conservative, this-is-the-american-way vote on particular national issues. As Toonpack has noted, their country has a very recent history of severe social unrest that we cannot really comprehend. I find it astonishing that it was only 150 years ago that they were fighting the civil war and what that war concerned. When I ask people over there 'why are you so concerned with the military?' that is the answer I get. America, despite its rhetoric on freedom, opportunity, and the dream, is still in the process of forging its identity. Guns are, and will remain, a part of that identity as wars are what created what little of the country's identity it has right now. Such a strange place. I'll probably get slammed for having a leftist approach to this but, whatever, I just tend to get these impressions when I go over there, and speak to my family over there. Top post. After all it's a country run by a death cult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniffer 0 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Fucking students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 7069 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 If only he'd sorted himself out with drainpipes and espadrilles, he'd may have found belonging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9169 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) They are the NO.1 exporters of war and death on earth. There is hardly a historical moment where America isn't slaughtering people across the planet somewhere. To all intents and purposes it was almost full on genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia...Then Korea...They haven't looked back since they wiped out the American Indian...It would be the equivalent of us wiping out all Scots, Irish and Welsh put together and then some...Nutters. Too many burgers. That's nearly all bullshit Not in the same league as the Russians/Chinese and Japanese (in mainland China/Korea) The third world weapon of choice is the AK47, that is Russian btw Edited July 23, 2012 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9169 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) totally agree. What's more is that their group devotion to patriotism dumbs the fact of this individualism down, creating a notion of this perfect middle ground of 'freedom' that is at once 'in it together as americans' and dangerously warped version of the american dream where selfishness prevails. From the classroom daily recitals of the pledge of allegiance from the age of 5 to the national anthem before baseball games, their rhetoric is infused with this faux patriotism that on surface lends itself to a big society coming together under the blanket of 'the flag', when in actual fact it is blind ignorance. Whenever i go over there to see my dad, it shocks me at how militaristic the place is... you cant avoid it. I know that that is a bit of a well-known viewpoint when people go over there, but fuck me, everywhere there is references to violence and war. It's like this weird voyeuristic thing about war, the country still retains a kind of attraction to it. And it is really selective as well - there are no notable remembrances or even acknowledgements about atrocities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and quell any possible feelings of guilt by stating that it was necessary. This is a totally different argument which i don't want to get into, but if you are going to take pride in your national history, if you can feel proud of something your great ancestors achieved or did, then you must simultaneously feel their shame as well. That isn't to say that all americans are like that. Far from it. But the country needs to shift its emphasis of self-interrogation towards what they lack, rather than what they offer. Their notion of 'freedom' is like an umbrella term for anything anyone likes it to be really. It is really interesting, because the word has taken on so many new meanings, not least by the republicans, that use it often as a means to get the conservative, this-is-the-american-way vote on particular national issues. As Toonpack has noted, their country has a very recent history of severe social unrest that we cannot really comprehend. I find it astonishing that it was only 150 years ago that they were fighting the civil war and what that war concerned. When I ask people over there 'why are you so concerned with the military?' that is the answer I get. America, despite its rhetoric on freedom, opportunity, and the dream, is still in the process of forging its identity. Guns are, and will remain, a part of that identity as wars are what created what little of the country's identity it has right now. Such a strange place. I'll probably get slammed for having a leftist approach to this but, whatever, I just tend to get these impressions when I go over there, and speak to my family over there. I only really disagree with the Hiroshima/Nagasaki atrocity notion, the rest is pretty spot on. I also see little need for national shame (outside of slavery/civil rights - which they didn't invent) in the US past (or ours for that matter) different times different standards. I think the OOT patriotism (which isn't a hugely bad thing IMO) is partly because of what's happened in the recent past, it cost a huge amount of blood to forge that country, very very recently, and to not be "proud of it" would be disrespectfull in the extreme within the psyche. It's not even a country by any "normal" measure, it's a HUGE continent. Parky's notions are just bollocks though. Edited July 23, 2012 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) YOu're in denial fella. American has attacked a country (being careful not to attack ones that can really defend themselves) every decade since WW2. If at the national level jingoism and solving everything with violence and regular calls to arms isn't going to trickle down to the national psyche I don't know what is? Even with picking military minnows you got your asses kicked. 42% on foodstamps. Unemployment and social inequality is rife...Poor education, third world healthcare..Some cities can't even pay their leccy bills...It's over and this kind of rampage and killing is going to increase as you well know. The biggest recorded national debt in the history of the planet backed by fiat money. Tell me all these people who lost their houses and live in shanty towns across countless states...Do they have guns? Edited July 23, 2012 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMAGEORDIE 0 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) I heard about this on the radio today. All I can say is if I was there I would have chinned the cunt. Edited July 23, 2012 by IAMAGEORDIE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 I heard about this on the radio today. All I can say is if I was there I would have chinned the cunt. God bless you Sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAMAGEORDIE 0 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 just a shame I fucking hate batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9169 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 YOu're in denial fella. American has attacked a country (being careful not to attack ones that can really defend themselves) every decade since WW2. If at the national level jingoism and solving everything with violence and regular calls to arms isn't going to trickle down to the national psyche I don't know what is? Even with picking military minnows you got your asses kicked. 42% on foodstamps. Unemployment and social inequality is rife...Poor education, third world healthcare..Some cities can't even pay their leccy bills...It's over and this kind of rampage and killing is going to increase as you well know. The biggest recorded national debt in the history of the planet backed by fiat money. Tell me all these people who lost their houses and live in shanty towns across countless states...Do they have guns? I am a Brit ?!?!?! Just keep your tinfoil hat on Parky eh ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 just a shame I fucking hate batman I think this has gone far enough alex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44261 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 6985 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 He's the biggest fucking attention seeker on this board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMoog 0 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 What's more orange, his hair or her face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32712 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Two anedotes I've rehashed from memory about Americans from an old British soldier and a U-Boat crewman. Tommy: "When the Germans shot you ducked. When we shot, the Germans ducked. When the Yanks shot everyone ducked." Fritz: "We would sail off the coastline near New York down the Eastern seaboard, the American civilians would all drive out in their cars and face their headlights out to sea so they could try and spot U-Boats and also get a good view of any explosions going on off the coast. We would wait until enough cars turned their lights on and would then surface and torpedo all the ships their headlights silhouetted. We called this our Golden period when the US first entered the war as up to that point the British and Canadians had been starting to get on top of the Wolf Packs in the middle of the Atlantic and were taking a heavy toll on our boats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 71 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Two anedotes I've rehashed from memory about Americans from an old British soldier and a U-Boat crewman. Tommy: "When the Germans shot you ducked. When we shot, the Germans ducked. When the Yanks shot everyone ducked." Fritz: "We would sail off the coastline near New York down the Eastern seaboard, the American civilians would all drive out in their cars and face their headlights out to sea so they could try and spot U-Boats and also get a good view of any explosions going on off the coast. We would wait until enough cars turned their lights on and would then surface and torpedo all the ships their headlights silhouetted. We called this our Golden period when the US first entered the war as up to that point the British and Canadians had been starting to get on top of the Wolf Packs in the middle of the Atlantic and were taking a heavy toll on our boats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32712 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Even then the car was King, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 32712 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Unfortunately Fritz's Karl Ziess binoculours, although the best around, could still not make out if the US wartime civilian motorists were eating Bagels and donuts whilst helping him so we can only use our imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 21800 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Good read in the FT on this http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5b3f1df0-d40e-11e1-942c-00144feabdc0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 9169 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Two anedotes I've rehashed from memory about Americans from an old British soldier and a U-Boat crewman. Tommy: "When the Germans shot you ducked. When we shot, the Germans ducked. When the Yanks shot everyone ducked." Fritz: "We would sail off the coastline near New York down the Eastern seaboard, the American civilians would all drive out in their cars and face their headlights out to sea so they could try and spot U-Boats and also get a good view of any explosions going on off the coast. We would wait until enough cars turned their lights on and would then surface and torpedo all the ships their headlights silhouetted. We called this our Golden period when the US first entered the war as up to that point the British and Canadians had been starting to get on top of the Wolf Packs in the middle of the Atlantic and were taking a heavy toll on our boats." First one is an old well worn WW2 saying. In the US Normandy breakout they used the USAF/RAF to bomb the crap out of the German lines , using yellow smoke target markers, they provided smoke markers to their front line units to mark their positions to avoid getting hit, sadly they provided yellow markers and caned their own troops. Changed the colour to try again next day, sadly changed both colours the same and did it all over again. Second one is fancifull at best, how bright were 1940's headlights, really!!!, a bigger problem was the eastern seaboard cities didn't black out and Amercan shipping sailed unescorted with lights on in the months before and early months after they joined the war. Doentiz gave the order to attack American shipping before America joined the war btw. First US warship sank by a U boat was about 6 months before Pearl Harbour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Narh the Americans shouldn't be allowed guns. Tell you what though, those IRA lads seem alright, let's make it legal for them to have guns instead you can't say that, some people including an admin guy don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 (edited) 4 US states have murder rates equitable to, or less, than the UK, 22 US states have murder rates equitable to, or less, than Europe's average (3.5/100K). The top 5 "killer states" are New Mexico (6.9/100K) Missouri and Mississippi (both 7/100K) Maryland (7.4/100K) and Louisiana at a scary 11.2/100K. Of the "better" states (sub 2 murders/100K of population) 6 of the lowest appear in the top twenty for gun ownership % of households, only 3 of the worst also appear in the top 20. Minnesota and Missouri have similar populations (within 700K) and identical gun ownership % (41.7%) yet Minnesota’s homicide rate is 1.8/100K and Missouri’s 7/100K. Minnesota doesn’t have the death penalty, Missouri does. Iowa and South Carolina are within 1 mill of population (3 and 4 Mill respectively) have similar gun ownership % (less than ½ % difference) yet murder rates are 1.3/100K and 6.1/100K respectively. Iowa has no death penalty South Carolina does. 5 of the top 6 states for gun ownership have lower murder rates than Europe (as do 10 of the top 20) 13 States have lower murder rates than London of which 7 are in the top 20 for gun ownership. The state of Washington has 30%-ish gun ownership and similar population to London and has about the same murder rate. Generally the higher rated killer states tend to be in the South, it's Social/Educational/Deprivation thing way more than simply a gun thing. Renton will be frothing at the mouth for challenging his superior intellect with facts like that. Edited July 24, 2012 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 44261 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Normal service resumed completely, I'd say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 21231 Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 Renton will be frothing at the mouth for challenging his superior intellect with facts like that. Why? It doesn't contradict anything I've said. You still seriously proposing we stop gun control in this country do you can shoot burglars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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