Shooting in Denver

[ewerk 31195]

What are you talking about? You realise there's a reason why guns of a certain size are illegal?

[Renton 21985]

 

 

but don't you have middle of the road political views, or is it a right wing rag rather than a left wing publication ?

 

Obsessed much?

[Renton 21985]

 

 

what he says is true though, and factual as well, whatever your superior intellect tells you.

 

Oh dear, banging on about superior intellect again, your insecurities are so transparent. You don't need any intellect to see what a sad man you are though. Supporting the right for everyone to bear arms now purely because I don't support it.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Renton

[Renton 21985]

 

 

I think it is an infringement of my basic human rights NOT to be able to legally own a firearm.

 

(I do think sale of assault weapons and the like is daft mind).

 

Thanks for verifying my suspicions then. I stick by my belief that your arguments are borderline deranged though, as your new ally amply demonstrates.

[Toonpack 9934]

What are you talking about? You realise there's a reason why guns of a certain size are illegal?

 

Is it so we can make them dangerous nutter sportsmen who shoot go abroad to train ???

[Kid Dynamite 7169]

You know how Leazes came within a whisker of being banned for his Shepherd craic? Surely his blowing up shopping centres shite is worse! He's derailing every thread again!

[LoveTheBobby 1]

Was there ever an author in The Mag called ALBERT DRYDEN ?

[ewerk 31195]

Is it so we can make them dangerous nutter sportsmen who shoot go abroad to train ???

 

You can choose to discuss the facts or not, up to you.

[luckyluke 2]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4443124/Batman-killers-obsession-with-Sun-Page-3-girl-Keeley-Hazell.html

 

I love how the sun rang the page 3 girl for her views.

[Tooj 17]

Not that it would happen but I dread to think what the press would say about me in a similar situation due to all of the porn I have on my computer.

[Park Life 71]

There are nearly as many guns in Canada. It's a deeper issue than just gun ownership. The American narrative has been very violent from day one.

[PaddockLad 17645]

Canada's less than half the US per capita, according to Wiki...figures for 2007, the source seems to be independant and reputable...Serbia is 2nd in the list, but they have 58 per hundred citizens and the US has 88.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

 

 

[Toonpack 9934]

Canada's less than half the US per capita, according to Wiki...figures for 2007, the source seems to be independant and reputable...Serbia is 2nd in the list, but they have 58 per hundred citizens and the US has 88.

 

http://en.wikipedia....pita_by_country

 

Also from Wiki:

 

Furthermore, in recent years,^[when?] the gap in violent crime rates between the United States and Canada has narrowed due to a precipitous drop in the violent crime rate in the U.S. For example, while the aggravated assault rate declined for most of 1990s in the U.S. and was 324 per 100,000 in 2000, the aggravated assault rate in Canada remained relatively steady throughout and was 143 per 100,000 in 2000. In other areas, the U.S. had a faster decline. For instance, whereas the murder rate in Canada declined by 36% between 1991 and 2004, the U.S. murder rate declined by 44%. ^[17] Both Saskatoon and Regina consistently have violent crime rates that would place them among the 10 most violent cities in the US, and often individually exceed larger US centres in terms of total numbers for Aggravated Assaults and Robbery.^{[citation needed]}

 

The homicide rate in Canada peaked in 1975 at 3.03 per 100,000 and has dropped since then; it reached lower peaks in 1985 (2.72) and 1991 (2.69). It reached a post-1970 low of 1.73 in 2003. The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 2.52, between 1977 and 1983 it was 2.67, between 1984 and 1990 it was 2.41, between 1991 and 1997 it was 2.23 and between 1998 to 2004 it was 1.82.^[18] The attempted homicide rate has fallen at a faster rate than the homicide rate.^[19]

 

By comparison, the homicide rate in the U.S. reached 10.1 per 100,000 in 1974, peaked in 1980 at 10.7 and reached a lower peak in 1991 (10.5). The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 9.4, between 1977 and 1983 it was 9.6, between 1984 and 1990 it was 9, between 1991 and 1997 it was 9.2 and between 1998 and 2004 it was 6.3. In 2004, the murder rate in the U.S. dipped below 6 per 100,000, for the first time since 1966, and as of 2010 stood at 4.8 per 100,000 ^[17]

[ewerk 31195]

The year following the introduction of firearms licensing in Canada (1977), saw a significant decline in murder involving firearms, relative to other mechanisms.^[30] From 1977 to 2003 Canada firearm homicide has declined from 1.15 to 0.5 per 100,000

 

Wikiwars.

[PaddockLad 17645]

 

 

Also from Wiki:

 

Furthermore, in recent years,^[when?] the gap in violent crime rates between the United States and Canada has narrowed due to a precipitous drop in the violent crime rate in the U.S. For example, while the aggravated assault rate declined for most of 1990s in the U.S. and was 324 per 100,000 in 2000, the aggravated assault rate in Canada remained relatively steady throughout and was 143 per 100,000 in 2000. In other areas, the U.S. had a faster decline. For instance, whereas the murder rate in Canada declined by 36% between 1991 and 2004, the U.S. murder rate declined by 44%. ^[17] Both Saskatoon and Regina consistently have violent crime rates that would place them among the 10 most violent cities in the US, and often individually exceed larger US centres in terms of total numbers for Aggravated Assaults and Robbery.^{[citation needed]}

 

The homicide rate in Canada peaked in 1975 at 3.03 per 100,000 and has dropped since then; it reached lower peaks in 1985 (2.72) and 1991 (2.69). It reached a post-1970 low of 1.73 in 2003. The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 2.52, between 1977 and 1983 it was 2.67, between 1984 and 1990 it was 2.41, between 1991 and 1997 it was 2.23 and between 1998 to 2004 it was 1.82.^[18] The attempted homicide rate has fallen at a faster rate than the homicide rate.^[19]

 

By comparison, the homicide rate in the U.S. reached 10.1 per 100,000 in 1974, peaked in 1980 at 10.7 and reached a lower peak in 1991 (10.5). The average murder rate between 1970 and 1976 was 9.4, between 1977 and 1983 it was 9.6, between 1984 and 1990 it was 9, between 1991 and 1997 it was 9.2 and between 1998 and 2004 it was 6.3. In 2004, the murder rate in the U.S. dipped below 6 per 100,000, for the first time since 1966, and as of 2010 stood at 4.8 per 100,000 ^[17]

 

Its not about violent crime though its about multiple shootings.

[Renton 21985]

It's great that the US has reduced its homicide rate so it's only 5 times worse than the UK's now. Imagine what they could achieve with proper gun control laws?

[luckyluke 2]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4443124/Batman-killers-obsession-with-Sun-Page-3-girl-Keeley-Hazell.html

 

I love how the sun rang the page 3 girl for her views.

 

I watched the sky news clip linked to in that, it said "gun ownership is too contentious an issue to mention in an election year so Obama avoided the topic"

 

Goddamn Carcetti...

[Happy Face 29]

The homicide rates haven't dropped so dramaticlly since the late 80's peak from any effective policing. It's down to abortion being lagalised.

[ChezGiven 0]

I often think that people in the US are more likely to end up brutally deranged because the society is so individualistic and lacks compassion. The psychological impact of how they organise themselves socially could potentially be a factor. There is no nanny state (which most of them love) but that means their care systems and social services can be non-existent. That helps to explain clearly the violence in working class (and lower) communities in the US but i also think that their middle class culture which is reflective of their overall culture alienates and isolates certain people and that turns around and bites them on the arse. Guns are an important part of the debate but Canada has more gun ownership but doesnt face the same issues.

[Toonpack 9934]

It's great that the US has reduced its homicide rate so it's only 5 times worse than the UK's now. Imagine what they could achieve with proper gun control laws?

 

4 US states have murder rates equitable to, or less, than the UK, 22 US states have murder rates equitable to, or less, than Europe's average (3.5/100K).

 

The top 5 "killer states" are New Mexico (6.9/100K) Missouri and Mississippi (both 7/100K) Maryland (7.4/100K) and Louisiana at a scary 11.2/100K.

 

Of the "better" states (sub 2 murders/100K of population) 6 of the lowest appear in the top twenty for gun ownership % of households, only 3 of the worst also appear in the top 20.

 

Minnesota and Missouri have similar populations (within 700K) and identical gun ownership % (41.7%) yet Minnesota’s homicide rate is 1.8/100K and Missouri’s 7/100K. Minnesota doesn’t have the death penalty, Missouri does.

 

Iowa and South Carolina are within 1 mill of population (3 and 4 Mill respectively) have similar gun ownership % (less than ½ % difference) yet murder rates are 1.3/100K and 6.1/100K respectively. Iowa has no death penalty South Carolina does.

 

5 of the top 6 states for gun ownership have lower murder rates than Europe (as do 10 of the top 20)

 

13 States have lower murder rates than London of which 7 are in the top 20 for gun ownership.

 

The state of Washington has 30%-ish gun ownership and similar population to London and has about the same murder rate.

 

Generally the higher rated killer states tend to be in the South, it's Social/Educational/Deprivation thing way more than simply a gun thing.

[PaddockLad 17645]

I often think that people in the US are more likely to end up brutally deranged because the society is so individualistic and lacks compassion. The psychological impact of how they organise themselves socially could potentially be a factor. There is no nanny state (which most of them love) but that means their care systems and social services can be non-existent. That helps to explain clearly the violence in working class (and lower) communities in the US but i also think that their middle class culture which is reflective of their overall culture alienates and isolates certain people and that turns around and bites them on the arse. Guns are an important part of the debate but Canada has more gun ownership but doesnt face the same issues.

 

They reckon its a lot to do with the frontier mentality of the "Old West" as well. They had to defend themselves and their land in the 1800s, and a lot still perpetuate the same kill or be killed attitude. Old habits die hard, but generally in this country we dont think shooting and killing burglars,trespassers or those just walking home http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/19/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE86I04X20120719 is very civilised. Seems to me it may take another 100-200 years before it falls out of favour in the US, if theyre lucky.

[Toonpack 9934]

They reckon its a lot to do with the frontier mentality of the "Old West" as well. They had to defend themselves and their land in the 1800s, and a lot still perpetuate the same kill or be killed attitude. Old habits die hard, but generally in this country we dont think shooting and killing burglars,trespassers or those just walking home http://www.reuters.c...E86I04X20120719 is very civilised. Seems to me it may take another 100-200 years before it falls out of favour in the US, if theyre lucky.

 

The Wild West was a lot more recent than people realise, Wyatt Earp died in 1929, the last Comanche war in Texas ended in 1879, that same year we were playing test cricket in Australia and fighting the Zulu's in Africa. .

 

A mere 150 years ago they had a civil war which claimed 600,000 dead, that's more fatal casualties than they lost in WW1 and WW2 combined, that's a lot of "domestic" violence in the very (in historical terms) recent past.

[Park Life 71]

I often think that people in the US are more likely to end up brutally deranged because the society is so individualistic and lacks compassion. The psychological impact of how they organise themselves socially could potentially be a factor. There is no nanny state (which most of them love) but that means their care systems and social services can be non-existent. That helps to explain clearly the violence in working class (and lower) communities in the US but i also think that their middle class culture which is reflective of their overall culture alienates and isolates certain people and that turns around and bites them on the arse. Guns are an important part of the debate but Canada has more gun ownership but doesnt face the same issues.

 

Agree.

[Park Life 71]

The Wild West was a lot more recent than people realise, Wyatt Earp died in 1929, the last Comanche war in Texas ended in 1879, that same year we were playing test cricket in Australia and fighting the Zulu's in Africa. .

 

A mere 150 years ago they had a civil war which claimed 600,000 dead, that's more fatal casualties than they lost in WW1 and WW2 combined, that's a lot of "domestic" violence in the very (in historical terms) recent past.

 

They are the NO.1 exporters of war and death on earth.

 

There is hardly a historical moment where America isn't slaughtering people across the planet somewhere. To all intents and purposes it was almost full on genocide in Vietnam and Cambodia...Then Korea...They haven't looked back since they wiped out the American Indian...It would be the equivalent of us wiping out all Scots, Irish and Welsh put together and then some...Nutters. Too many burgers.

[ADP 0]

I often think that people in the US are more likely to end up brutally deranged because the society is so individualistic and lacks compassion. The psychological impact of how they organise themselves socially could potentially be a factor. There is no nanny state (which most of them love) but that means their care systems and social services can be non-existent. That helps to explain clearly the violence in working class (and lower) communities in the US but i also think that their middle class culture which is reflective of their overall culture alienates and isolates certain people and that turns around and bites them on the arse. Guns are an important part of the debate but Canada has more gun ownership but doesnt face the same issues.

 

 

totally agree. What's more is that their group devotion to patriotism dumbs the fact of this individualism down, creating a notion of this perfect middle ground of 'freedom' that is at once 'in it together as americans' and dangerously warped version of the american dream where selfishness prevails. From the classroom daily recitals of the pledge of allegiance from the age of 5 to the national anthem before baseball games, their rhetoric is infused with this faux patriotism that on surface lends itself to a big society coming together under the blanket of 'the flag', when in actual fact it is blind ignorance. Whenever i go over there to see my dad, it shocks me at how militaristic the place is... you cant avoid it. I know that that is a bit of a well-known viewpoint when people go over there, but fuck me, everywhere there is references to violence and war. It's like this weird voyeuristic thing about war, the country still retains a kind of attraction to it. And it is really selective as well - there are no notable remembrances or even acknowledgements about atrocities such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and quell any possible feelings of guilt by stating that it was necessary. This is a totally different argument which i don't want to get into, but if you are going to take pride in your national history, if you can feel proud of something your great ancestors achieved or did, then you must simultaneously feel their shame as well. That isn't to say that all americans are like that. Far from it. But the country needs to shift its emphasis of self-interrogation towards what they lack, rather than what they offer. Their notion of 'freedom' is like an umbrella term for anything anyone likes it to be really. It is really interesting, because the word has taken on so many new meanings, not least by the republicans, that use it often as a means to get the conservative, this-is-the-american-way vote on particular national issues. As Toonpack has noted, their country has a very recent history of severe social unrest that we cannot really comprehend. I find it astonishing that it was only 150 years ago that they were fighting the civil war and what that war concerned. When I ask people over there 'why are you so concerned with the military?' that is the answer I get. America, despite its rhetoric on freedom, opportunity, and the dream, is still in the process of forging its identity. Guns are, and will remain, a part of that identity as wars are what created what little of the country's identity it has right now. Such a strange place.

 

I'll probably get slammed for having a leftist approach to this but, whatever, I just tend to get these impressions when I go over there, and speak to my family over there.

Edited July 23, 2012 by ADP